Luger for non 12(6) collector

Taylor-Made

Taylor-Made

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I have always had a great interest in WWII history and equipment. I don't have 12(6) status which is an issue for my latest find. I stumbled across a Luger P08 the other day at a local gun store. This pistols barrel is too short for the lawmakers.

Can some of you help me with some options if I decided to buy and the tradeoffs.

I believe I could have it re-barreled and then buy it as a restricted? My concern is ruining a historical pistol. Would I be allowed to keep the actual barrel and at least be able to keep the original pieces in case I ever decided to sell to a 12(6) buyer?

I assume I could have it deactivated? I don't really need to shoot the pistol, but I would rather not own a Neutered pistol :(. This would also devalue the pistol I assume.

Let me know your thoughts folks. I'm thinking it may be better to leave the gun be and let a 12(6) buyer keep it original.
 
Taylor-Made said:
I believe I could have it re-barreled and then buy it as a restricted? My concern is ruining a historical pistol.
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Is it completely matching in the first place? If it's a complete match then you'll be paying the premium for that, and the cost to have it re-barreled.

If it's a complete match I'd walk away and save it for a 12.6 collector. If it's not a complete match then it's less of a issue to have it re-barreled.

My $0.02.
 
Taylor made

I collect and own many many lugers so fully understand and appreciate the fact that you do not wish to destroy an historical piece of weaponary, you have lots of options available.

You should check to see if your father/mother/grandparents have 12/6 classification, this would enable you to own an 12/6 pre-1945 Luger under the auspices of 12/7--totaly legal.

Aside from this you could look for one that has already been rebarreled with mismatched/matched pieces excluding the barrel --some collectors myself included cull out some of our collection and have an licenced gunsmith rebarrel a mismatched Po-8 (Luger) to restricted status--the original barrel has to be destroyed that is why i suggest a mismatched piece.

You could also purchase the luger you have located bearing in mind that it will have to be sent direct to a gunsmith for the above work--again you cannot retain the barrel re the 12/6 phrohibited CFC laws.Rebarreling is a long process due to the fact new barrels are hard to obtain.

You could also bide your time and watch for one to come up for sale at local gun shows, these converted/lugers do come up for sale and depending on your resources you should budget between 800 to 1200, for a decent luger in 9mm, the odd time a artillery luger or restricted commercial luger comes up for sale but if you can find an nice artillery for under 2K grab it before i sniff it out, if I can be of furthur help send an PM.

Nice to read your add and help out another Luger fellow.
 
In order for this luger to be in your possession, This luger, ser ####xx would have to have been your Grandfather's/ Father's and passed down to you, who would be in possession of an RPAL. In essence to get 12-7......a 12-6 gun is passed down to a member of the family who isn't entitled to a 12-6 designation, but is entitled to the "heirloom"........got to love Canadian Gun Laws:puke:
 
You won't be allowed to keep the original barrel as it must be verified "destroyed".

Might I suggest you look for a mis-matched example in fair to good condition? It will keep you on budget and you won't feel bad about ruining a collector item as you can get a new restricted barrel put on and have the gunsmith re-blue the luger so everything matches. I did this for my 1914 and I have no regrets.
 
Or else just hang on for a bit......

We have a Government right now which seems to be trying to get some sanity into this mess. Let's see if they actually do something and then..... maybe even do something else to straighten out this current situation, which is nothing more than a looney-left Liberal wet-dream designed to leave ALL the power in the hands of a benevolent Gummint.

We all know what happens when a benevolent Gummint ends up with ALL the power. Uncle Adolf had a Gummint of that sort. So did dear old Uncle Joe. So did that nice Comrade Mao. Between them they killed close to 80,000,000 of their OWN people, then started on everyone else's.

Classical Liberalism of the 18th Century is dead. This was the doctrine which called for tolerance within the law and as few restrictive laws as possible. Modern Liberals (including the American ones and most Europeans) take from both sides of a polarised equation. Their problem is that they take their gun-control measures from the Nazis and the implementation of them from the Communists, then proclaim the results as a "tolerant, middle-of-the-road" solution. It STILL leaves all power in the hands of the Gummint and its oh-so-eager servants, far too many of whom think in the same patterns as did the NKVD/KGB or the Gestapo.

The end result is what we have today: a society in which violent criminals and police have the power..... and the rest of us are relegated to the ever-popular role of victim and are forbidden even to defend our own homes. Fortunately, there still exist some old-fashioned REAL cops (who want the crooks off the streets for good) and a few judges who are not completely senile or brainwashed (who put the crooks away when they get the chance).

But this nasty situation is reversing, much like a clock pendulum which has gone too far. Right now, there IS a chance for some sanity from Otawa, so let's support Harper and see what he does. If he doesn't do what is RIGHT, we can always turf him...... just like we already turfed Avril Phaedra Campbell and Jean Cretin and their crowds. It's a new ball game, so let's see how it goes.

I have 3 Lugers myself, including a very minty 1916 DWM. I certainly don't want them going to the shredder, either piecemeal OR entire.

BTW, take a very careful read of MAGNA CHARTA of 1215. It has been confirmed many, many times, starting in 1217, then in 1225. In it, the King promises that he will not go against any Free Man, nor reduce him in any way, except upon him being attainted (convicted) under the Law. And there are very definite LIMITS on the Law. See Blackstone, Volume 1, on the limits upon the powers of Parliament and see the Bill of Rights of 1689 for specific reference to "arms for their defence". My commentary on the Assize of Arms of 1181 also has some value in this regard. We don't need NEW laws; the old ones work very well indeed..... and they are still the Law.

Let's USE them the way they were intended.

In the meantime, hold tight. After all, all the fuss is actually about THREE millimetres: one-eighth of an inch.

We're not asking for the world. We're asking (politely) for one-eighth of an inch..... on our own LAWFUL PROPERTY.

Let's see if we get it.

In the meantime, somebody really should turn out a whack of 106mm Luger barrels and sell them for about $75 apiece: which is what they are worth.
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Perhaps the current government would consider an amnesty for people in prohib purgatory while these issues are pending. I wish.
 
Well, if I knew then what I know now!

I got up bright and early this morning and headed into the shop to check if that pistol was all matching. At the price it was selling for I was confident that it wasn't and I was all set to buy it and order up a barrel.

Much to my shock, I was advised it WAS all matching except the magazine. What a deal! It's also gone! A gentleman without 12(6) bought it and has ordered a barrel.

Thank-you to all of you for your info. I am better armed now for the next P08 I stumble across
 
This is a ? for Imperial Luger - I have been led to believe that matching numbers on the mag. are relatively scarce, could you comment on this? I felt lucky when I found an 1939 S/42 all matching #s many years ago, what would be the approx. value, lets say it's about 80-85% original cosmetic wise? --- John303.
 
John 303

You are quite correct that finding any luger with a correct matching mag is a good day, bear with me and I will give all interested a short run down on magazine history before commenting on your value. First I will cover forced matched mags as these are the most common examples of incorrect matched mags found with lugers.I do not have the time to cover all eras of magazine manufacture as this is a tough study and will confuse unintentionally.

Many lugers have forced matched mags, both from the armory,police reissue,Russian refurbs called Vopo lugers. and from downright scoundrels trying to bilk the inexperienced collector out of their hard earned dollars.

Forced matched means anything other than original issue when the firearm was procured by the German procurement branches.

German field armorers at times would reissue and restamp a mag to field forces with no attention to whether the mag was period correct, during the Weimar era the German workshops reworked many a luger and restamped/overstamped bases mostly wood and sometimes aluminum although these are easy to detect from original Imperial bases due to the fact that military issue mags will have a plus for the second mag. One has to be very carefull on these as many bases were sanded down and restamped by the said scoundrels.

German police armorers during the Weimar era and Third Reich period whom reworked the older Imperial era lugers usually were given new mags with aluminum bases and restamped the aluminum bases with corresponding serial numbers but usually these mags will have an sunburst K on the base or other stamps that an very experienced eye will be able to validate.Police procurement mags differ with respect to the base stamps as in 1,2 0r 3 accompanying the serial number.

Keep in mind that the restrictions placed on the war ravished economy of post WW#1 Germany through the conditions of the Versailles treaty created many an independant workshop putting together lugers and magazines for sale to foreign sources, this period of transition is generally held to reworked Imperial magazines as new luger and magazine production were mostly procured for the 100,000 man police forces following established military/police procurement orders and guidlines.

Jumping ahead to the Third reich era the procurement offices also followed established procurement orders with the contractors stamping the aluminum bases in the same fashion as the Imperial era.This era saw several magazine contractors with many WaA assigned codes starting from K date mags to the end of luger production in 1942



Anyone myself included should tread very carefully when purchasing a luger with a matched magazine, you have to understand luger procurement and the letter suffix that accompanies the serial number for the simple reason that lugers followed a serialization from 1 to 10,000 then repeated themselves with the alpha letter changing when the block of 10,000 terminated, it is the type of magazine, the acceptance mark and the type of base that has to be considered.

The scoundrels mostly outside of Canada that do this to enhance values are unethical collectors and do a disservice to the inexperienced collector.A Lugers value can increase substantially with correct magazines.

The Russian vopo luger which is in an era of itself post WW#2 will have factory reworked and restamped bases after removing the original serial number--these are the only forced magazine serial numbers that are of any value in my opinion due to the fact that the East Germans reserialed the magazines on a consistent basis, the overall value of a Vopo luger rig is not as great as an original issue military or police procurement from the German war departments of the Imperial,Weimar, and Third Reich period.

Now getting to the value of your particular luger I will not do this unless given the chance to have a hands on examination of your luger to see if you have the real thing.

What I will tell you is that the 1939 S/42 is by far more valuable that an 42 code 1939 date based on production numbers, the 1939 S/42 was the last of the S/42 luger toggles in the Third Reich period and provided you have the correct mag is a desirable luger in any mans collection. Luger values have taken a hit just like any other firearm these last few years.

I hope that you are not offended with my reluctance to give a value on an unseen matched piece and if you can make it to the Kamloops show in BC I usually have a nice luger display every year, also attend the Calgary show at Easter and will gladly dissasemble your luger with your permission and then place a value that you will be comfortable with.
 
No offence taken & thank you for your input & info. I will get the Luger(s) out and have a closer look at the mags. Unfortunately Kamloops is a long way from Sarnia Ont. so we'll probably not get together. Take care ALL --- John303.
 
John 303

Yes Sarnia is a bit far, your luger by chance wouldn't be in the o suffix range is it, if so it may have an O or an N property mark on the rear grip frame indicating Kriegsmarine procurement. a good rule of thumb on a 39 S/42 Third Reich military Mauser procured luger is to examine the right hand receiver acceptance marks and check the magazine base for the same acceptance, stick eagle 83 or Stick eagle 63 should be found on the aluminum base accompanying the serial number depending on your letter suffix.

If you have a police procured luger the same stick eagle 83 or 63 will apply however the bases may have an 1 or accompanying 2 which would have been marked at the Police armories in Berlin.

This is all part of my reluctance to associate a value on an unseen luger. To many variables.
 
Well I "dug" the old girls (only 2) out of storage, it's been about 3 years and had a look. The S/42 does indeed have a "written" N in both places and a 63 stick eagle to match. My 1917 DWM with a 3 digit Ser. # is also matching but I'm suspicious about that one, especially the barrel. Thanks for the info. it's appreciated. --- John303.
 
Amen to the pocket pistols Nabs! Personally, I really think you guys with 12 (6) should be bloody thankful you were born in the last generation, being born in 87 sucks! Hell, the Soviet Union was still going, so why can't I own a prohibited handgun? Wait, thought PROHIBITED meant NO, NADA, NIET, NEGATIVE on ownage... don't mean to rant, but the old-boy's club wears thin with us new guys.
 
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