M1 Carbine and 1903A3 Rear Sight help

Blastattack

Blastattack

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Hey all!

I'm looking for some information regarding the M1 Carbine an 03A3 rear sights. What I would like to know is how much real estate do each of these sights take up? More specifically, I'm interested in the width and length of the sights.


Now I know what most of you are thinking: "Why would he need to know? If he has either rifle, the right sight will fit!". The reason I ask is because I'm very much a fan of the utilitarian style of military rifles, and am toying with the idea of co-mounting an iron sight and side mounting a ~4x scope on my hunting rifle. The benefits are obvious (dual/BUIS sighting, easy access to loading port etc) as are the drawbacks (increased bulk, scope mis-alignment), But it's different, oddball and totally out of left field. I also want to build a 10rd internal magazine... for the funzies, mainly. I should also add that all this will be fitted to a Remington 722 in .300 Savage that is presently set up to load via stripper clip. Yes, I want to build something retro-tactical. Yes, I am crazy. And yes, I got this idea from Call of Duty.

At the very base of this project, I'm essentially trying to build a Mauser side scope mount/base, but instead of having offset rings that center the scope over the bore, I have "standard" rings that center the scope over the mount itself.

Any help or constructive criticism is much appreciated. Thanks!

3881-Enfield_Sniper.jpg

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And as a PS to all y'all negative nancys: assume everything is free and I have unlimited time. I am a machinist, and have access to all the equipment needed to build this, should I chose to do so.
 
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well, i would ask what you are putting it on first
i have never used or tried an offset scope set up, and i can tell you that i have never even seen a real lee enfield that has a scope set up like that one

if you have an AR style rifle with a rail on top, there are several sights avalible now that give you a front and rear that are ata 45 degree angle from the rail so you can use a scope (over bore like usual) for longer shots and irons for shorter shots by simply tilting the rifle, perhaps this is more suited a sit would be hard to get a decent cheek weld to a stock with an offset scope like the one shown that would also let you use the irons effectively.

if i were to add an iron set up to something, i would not bother using an adjustable set up from an existing rifle, as the range settings will be all wrong, and in a situation where your gonna use them, i doubt youll want to be fiddling with range.
 
I guess it's best to specify ;)

I'm looking for dimensions for the larger adjustable Carbine sight. If i were to get one, I would be looking at using the Kensight modern reproduction. The price is right and I don't have to contend with old and worn sight components. Heck, I could even simply make a brand new sight specifically for my rifle. It's not like either the Carbine or 03A3 sight would be very much effort to replicate. The five main components would actually be very easy to duplicate.
 
scott585 said:
well, i would ask what you are putting it on first
i have never used or tried an offset scope set up, and i can tell you that i have never even seen a real lee enfield that has a scope set up like that one

if you have an AR style rifle with a rail on top, there are several sights avalible now that give you a front and rear that are ata 45 degree angle from the rail so you can use a scope (over bore like usual) for longer shots and irons for shorter shots by simply tilting the rifle, perhaps this is more suited a sit would be hard to get a decent cheek weld to a stock with an offset scope like the one shown that would also let you use the irons effectively.

if i were to add an iron set up to something, i would not bother using an adjustable set up from an existing rifle, as the range settings will be all wrong, and in a situation where your gonna use them, i doubt youll want to be fiddling with range.
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I appreciate your comments.

Everything will be fitted to a 1952 Remington 722 (basically the pre-700, identical in most respects) that is chambered for .300 Savage. I beleive you are right in saying that there are no Enfields set up like that ones pictured. However, I do know offset side scope mounts have been deployed in the battlefield with success, namely mounted to the M1C and M1D Garands, as well as a variety of K31s. In fact, my reserach has shown at least two commercial K31 side scope mounts (here and here) and two Military mounts (here and here). I can't imagine that it would be any harder to shot and aim my rifle that it would be to shoot and aim an M1C/D or one of the K31 setups. Certainly no less accurate. With a custom mount, I can offset the center-line of the scope scope 1.025" left and a scant 1.025" over bore center, which would allow for a rear sight that is no wider than 1.025" with about three hairs of clearance. Or, skip the sight and bring the scope closer to center; .775 left and 1.160 above bore center, which puts the scope centerline .100" off the left side of the receiver. Perfect for a mount whose base is .200" thick. With either setup i could employ a simple dovetail to which I could mount standard 3/8" or 11mm rings, and have some pressed in pins to prevent motion under recoil.
 
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if you only want to use the scope, you fine, but if the stock is made so you get a good cheek weld using an offset scope, you will have a hard time getting a weld to use the iron sights.

is there a reason you want to go with M1 sights? why not make a front sight that is adjustable for either elevation or wind age, and align it with a peep built in to the scope mount that is adjustable for the other factor. if you sight in for ~100 yards your still hitting vitals in any game animal out to 200 yards and you shouldn't need to adjust in the field. this also minimizes the difference of firing position between irons and scope. you could use an offset sight similar to a bren gun if you want an offset mount
 
scott585 said:
if you only want to use the scope, you fine, but if the stock is made so you get a good cheek weld using an offset scope, you will have a hard time getting a weld to use the iron sights.

is there a reason you want to go with M1 sights? why not make a front sight that is adjustable for either elevation or wind age, and align it with a peep built in to the scope mount that is adjustable for the other factor. if you sight in for ~100 yards your still hitting vitals in any game animal out to 200 yards and you shouldn't need to adjust in the field. this also minimizes the difference of firing position between irons and scope. you could use an offset sight similar to a bren gun if you want an offset mount
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The stock is made for the original factory sights, and has a pretty extreme drop. A perfect cheekweld has me staring so low that my view of the front sight is obstructed by the very thin weaver base on the receiver ring. Ultimately my view will have to be shifted regardless of sight setup.

As far as why I'm considering M1 Carbine/03A3 sights; they appear rugged, compact, are made of steel, and are of windage adjustable. They're also readily available and match the tone and old world, military style i'm going for. As far as sight adjustments go, neither sight would be adjusted in the field as both the irons and scope would be independently, and permanently zeroed at different and appropriate ranges. After reviewing some of the ballistic information and approximating a .300 savage load, zeroing the irons at 100 yards and the scope at 200 yards is the ideal situation. Doing so would allow the irons to be put dead on target up to 170 yards (+.3" @ 100, -3.2" @ 170), and the scope out to 250 yards (+2.9" @ 120, -4.6" @ 250), both assuming dead on accuracy. Personal maximum ranges may well be much closer than that.

Offset sights may also be interesting, though i fear the front would catch on just about everything. They would also likely force the scope to be on center, denying me the ability to use stripper clips.

Your idea about having the irons mounted to the scope mount is intriguing. I'm not terribly fond of the idea of adjustable front sights, but doing something at the rear is certainly an option. I should add that I plan on custom making the front sight as well. It will essentially be a copy of a Mosin Nagant front sight, but designed to fit the dovetail and width of my front ramp.
 
it would be simple to have an adjustable for elevation front sight, if it were me, i would steal an ar-15 gas block sight or a G3/HK91 with the interchangeable leaves, and cut off what wasnt needed and weld on a new mount set up, you could machine off the lower hole on a G3 3 hole front sight/barrel band and use the middle hole as the barrel mount
 
scott585 said:
it would be simple to have an adjustable for elevation front sight, if it were me, i would steal an ar-15 gas block sight or a G3/HK91 with the interchangeable leaves, and cut off what wasnt needed and weld on a new mount set up, you could machine off the lower hole on a G3 3 hole front sight/barrel band and use the middle hole as the barrel mount
Click to expand...

That's not the look i'm going for though. I'm going fo something that could/would have been realized circa 1950, hence the desire to use period military parts and period styling.

Is there anyone with a vernier and either an M1 Carbine or an 03A3 with receiver bridge mounted adjustable sights who would be willing to take some measurements for me? Thank you!
 
So, can anyone help? I just need two measurements off ya's. Please? All I need is the length and width of both/either the 03A3 adjustable rear peep sight and the nearly identical M1 Carbine adjustable rear peep sight.

Thanks guys!
 
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