M1 Carbine Troubleshooting

Vimy Ridge

Vimy Ridge

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This old Winchester M1 Carbine has been experiencing some cycling issues. Which, IIRC was failure to eject. This has happened with several types of ammo. Take a look at the pics of the ejector, does it look worn/rounded? Secondly, in some pictures on the internet the ejector looks flat on the end, was there also sloped variation or is this really worn out? Should I replace the ejector or do you have any other ideas to get this running smoothly? The ejector and extractor springs both seem good. The extractor seems to work fine. The operating slide spring was recently replaced with a NOS one. The piston nut and piston were both replaced because the nut was damaged. I should mention that these parts were swapped in after the cycling problems and they haven't rectified them. It's been cleaned and lubricated. The three mags used were all USGI. Sorry for the picture quality. Any help would be appreciated because I'm running out of ideas. Thanks, VR

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Hi Vimy, looks like your ejector has fatigued and a piece actually sheared off. It also looks like your extractor isn't sitting tight like mine in the bolt. Maybe it is just the way the photo makes it look but you definitely should install a new ejector and I'd have someone with carbine experience take a look at your bolt and extractor condition. Are you using commercial ammo or reloads? I have found all of my 3 carbines to be tempermental at best with moderate hand loads but when loaded to milspec all work as they should. VERY seldom do I ever have a misfed round and have hardly ever seen a failure to eject. Mild loads for me have produced rechambered or stovepiped fired cases and I've seen bad fitting or poor quality mags cause similar issues. Most of the commercial ammo I ran through my guns has worked very well, but I haven't used any of the more recent stuff to hit the market. All the commercial stuff I ever used was older production Remington and Winchester that I had for many years now, as I have been reloading for a long time. I checked and all my carbines have slightly rounded pins. They're fun guns to shoot. Hope you figure out what's happening with yours.
Al
 
is that rust on the bolt face........

your rifle may be short strokeing the gas piston is it free does it move nicely??

they did do an upgrade on the gas piston nut to increase piston travel
 
contact148 said:
is that rust on the bolt face........

your rifle may be short strokeing the gas piston is it free does it move nicely??

they did do an upgrade on the gas piston nut to increase piston travel
Click to expand...

Not rust, junk from the primers.

I'll have another look at some of what you guys mentioned. I'll let you know. Thanks.
 
You can check the ejector by pinning the bolt open and hooking an empty cartridge on the extractor lip. Use a small screwdriver to push the case over against the ejector pin pressure. with it held against the pressure allow the screwdriver to slip off the end of the case. If it flips the case out of the breech it is working ok and your problem is something else.

You didn't mention if you handload or are using factory? In the ftf, does the empty feed back into the chamber or hang up on the barrel/front action ring? It is quite possible that the ejector is working properly but the bolt is only opening during blow-back far enough that the empty only has time to go part way out of the breech before the bolt starts to close and traps it. I've found with my carbine I have to load to at least 1800 fps for it to function ( this with all original G.I. parts except an exchange 19" n/r barrel).
 
At the end of the day, and tried everthing you can think of, send to Bits of Pieces in Vancouver. May take awhile but suposed to get it back to shooting shape, mines there now, will find out eventually...
 
goldidig said:
...looks like your ejector has fatigued and a piece actually sheared off. It also looks like your extractor isn't sitting tight like mine in the bolt. Maybe it is just the way the photo makes it look but you definitely should install a new ejector and I'd have someone with carbine experience take a look at your bolt and extractor condition. Are you using commercial ammo or reloads?
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I believe the extractor just looks funny from the angle of the photos. The ejector works fine when I use an empty case. I'm only using factory ammo. Mostly Winchester and Remington stuff. Although I don't remember what kind of ammo had the red sealant around the primers. I may end up replacing the ejector and spring, it couldn't hurt.

contact148 said:
your rifle may be short strokeing the gas piston is it free does it move nicely?? they did do an upgrade on the gas piston nut to increase piston travel
Click to expand...

The piston area is now what I'm thinking the problem is. The piston doesn't move freely. There was a bit of carbon from the last firing but it was at no point completely seized or anything. I can't seem to get the piston to move once the nut is on. I can pull it out and push it in without the nut, but there is friction/resistance. I would have though that the gas pressure would easily move it enough to cycle!? Air does move freely through the gas port, but I will try the drill bit trick tomorrow to make sure it's opened up fully. http://www.shotgunnews.com/2011/08/29/how-to-clean-out-the-m1-carbine-gas-port/

Even after the good cleaning today the piston still sticks. As I mentioned the original piston nut was damaged and when I took it apart the first time it was also loose, so I wonder if there is a burr or something in there. I'm leaving it soak overnight to see if it helps get rid of any build up. As you know it's difficult to see inside the gas block clearly, but I think it's pretty clean already...

zuke said:
Check to make sure the gas piston retaining nut is tight.
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The new nut was tight. I read somewhere that they can be over tightened. I had it snug but not cranked.

fingers284 said:
You can check the ejector by pinning the bolt open and hooking an empty cartridge on the extractor lip. Use a small screwdriver to push the case over against the ejector pin pressure. with it held against the pressure allow the screwdriver to slip off the end of the case. If it flips the case out of the breech it is working ok and your problem is something else.

In the ftf, does the empty feed back into the chamber or hang up on the barrel/front action ring? It is quite possible that the ejector is working properly but the bolt is only opening during blow-back far enough that the empty only has time to go part way out of the breech before the bolt starts to close and traps it.
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The ejector seems to work fine. Last time I fired this rifle was quite some time ago. If I remember correctly the casings weren't ejecting properly and it was stove piping. Occasionally when the casing did eject, I believe the next round was unable to feed because of the bolt closing prematurely. Sorry that I can't say 100%, like I said it's been a while since I've been able to take it to the range and unfortunately I didn't get it resolved before when I started working on this. I'll take it back to the range when I can, but for now there's at least something to go on.
 
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The nut on a G.I. carbine are stacked so the nut does not come out. If you take the nut out you damage the threads on the nut & on the housing. Housing threads must be re taped to put a new nut in. If you don't the new nut will get damaged plus damage the threads on the housing also & could bind agains the nut. If the threads on the housing is to damaged you can throw the barrel away. You should be able to screw the nut all the way in by hand. Your extractor don't look right by the pics. Your best bet is to send your gun to some one that can take it ALL apart clean it & check all of the parts.
 
contact148 said:
you NEED the GI wrench to remove that nut else you will bend it or destroy it!!
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I have one! ;)

gunsdora said:
The nut on a G.I. carbine are stacked so the nut does not come out. If you take the nut out you damage the threads on the nut & on the housing. Housing threads must be re taped to put a new nut in. If you don't the new nut will get damaged plus damage the threads on the housing also & could bind agains the nut. If the threads on the housing is to damaged you can throw the barrel away. You should be able to screw the nut all the way in by hand. Your extractor don't look right by the pics. Your best bet is to send your gun to some one that can take it ALL apart clean it & check all of the parts.
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I know they were staked. The one on this rifle wasn't when I first took it apart, the original nut was loose like I already said. I can see where it used to be staked. I'm not sure about the rest of what you're saying. Lots of M1 Carbine owners have had to remove the piston nut for various reasons. I've never seen anyone mention re-tapping anywhere on the internet. Although the nut certainly doesn't screw in by hand. The wrench is required. So maybe the threads were damaged by the nut being loose, or by whoever took the nut out in the first place... maybe this is a candidate for re-barreling!

It's difficult to get clear answers here, there's a lot of opinions.
 
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gaff said:
looks like you need a new extractor spring. and possibly some wd-40 in the ejector.
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I thought it was interesting that this keeps coming up. I re-examined the bolt. The spring pushes the extractor back, but the plunger doesn't stay up against the extractor once it's at rest. The extractor can move up and down slightly as a result. Good eyes gaff and goldidig.

Here's a bit of addition info, this rifle is a Bavarian M1 Carbine. Never saw refurbishment. It has all original and matching Winchester parts. It needs refurbishing! :p
 
"The piston area is now what I'm thinking the problem is. The piston doesn't move freely. There was a bit of carbon from the last firing but it was at no point completely seized or anything. I can't seem to get the piston to move once the nut is on. I can pull it out and push it in without the nut, but there is friction/resistance. I would have though that the gas pressure would easily move it enough to cycle!?"

This is where I believe the problem lies. Of all the carbines that I've had in the past, the piston moved freely in every single one. In fact, they should flop back and forth when you tip the barrel up, then down. You say the piston is a tight fit into the recess in the gas block without the retaining nut installed. It shouldn't be tight enough that you have to force it. This is indicative of the Pistons large diameter bearing surface not having enough clearance. The fact that it locks up tighter when you install the retaining nut is further proof that their is not enough clearance. You mentioned that you had replaced these parts. If there is plenty of clearance between the small diameter of the piston, and the gas nut, then it would appear that the pistons large diameter needs to be fitted to the gas block to obtain the proper clearance.
The reason for this could be that the piston you have is an oversize replacement, or even from a civvy made gun . If there is any way that you can compare this piston to a known G.I. piston that does work that may help you know for sure.
 
jakester said:
"The piston area is now what I'm thinking the problem is. The piston doesn't move freely. There was a bit of carbon from the last firing but it was at no point completely seized or anything. I can't seem to get the piston to move once the nut is on. I can pull it out and push it in without the nut, but there is friction/resistance. I would have though that the gas pressure would easily move it enough to cycle!?"

This is where I believe the problem lies. Of all the carbines that I've had in the past, the piston moved freely in every single one. In fact, they should flop back and forth when you tip the barrel up, then down. You say the piston is a tight fit into the recess in the gas block without the retaining nut installed. It shouldn't be tight enough that you have to force it. This is indicative of the Pistons large diameter bearing surface not having enough clearance. The fact that it locks up tighter when you install the retaining nut is further proof that their is not enough clearance. You mentioned that you had replaced these parts. If there is plenty of clearance between the small diameter of the piston, and the gas nut, then it would appear that the pistons large diameter needs to be fitted to the gas block to obtain the proper clearance.
The reason for this could be that the piston you have is an oversize replacement, or even from a civvy made gun . If there is any way that you can compare this piston to a known G.I. piston that does work that may help you know for sure.
Click to expand...

I know I said the piston was replaced. I was looking through the spare parts bin, now I don't believe it was or I would have kept the original. So I'm pretty sure it was just the piston nut and operating slide spring. Last time I had a chance to look at this gun was well over a year ago. My memory is crap so I apologize because it adds another element of stupidity to this mess. Anyway, the piston may still be the wrong size indeed. Another thing to consider. Thank you.

This gun has never worked properly since it was purchased at a gun show years ago (it's not my rifle either, I'm just helping someone out), in that period I think it's probably been to the range only a few times... I'm thinking it's time to send it to a good gunsmith to sort out. Here I was hoping it was going to be something easy to fix. :rolleyes:

So is Bits of Pieces the best place to send it to?
 
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gunsdora said:
The nut on a G.I. carbine are stacked so the nut does not come out. If you take the nut out you damage the threads on the nut & on the housing. Housing threads must be re taped to put a new nut in. If you don't the new nut will get damaged plus damage the threads on the housing also & could bind agains the nut. If the threads on the housing is to damaged you can throw the barrel away. You should be able to screw the nut all the way in by hand. Your extractor don't look right by the pics. Your best bet is to send your gun to some one that can take it ALL apart clean it & check all of the parts.
Click to expand...

of course if you have the GI gas piston houseing threader you have no worries......

Ive removed at least 10 of them and never wrecked the nut ( with the GI wrench)

measure the DIA of the piston ive got a box of spares i can check if you want
 
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