M1 Garand problems with extracting 2nd round

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Chrono8

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Hey everyone, I recently purchased an M1 Garand off a member of the forums here, Rifle is in ok shape and doesn't appear to be completely matching. But i bought this one to shoot more than for the collection side,

Finally got a day nice enough to take it out to the range. Managed to secure some of the federal M1 garand ammo, as well an unopened greek spam can from my instructor. Thats when all the issues started happening.

I tried multiple types of en bloc clips, and have included pictures. upon the second round being fired the gun would jam the extractor would rip the top of the brass as it came back and then the casing would be stuck in the chamber. I would have to put a cleaning rod down the front the push it back into the magazine well. When i single loaded just 1 round at a time the gun would work fine. Both ammo seemed to have this issue, at one point the clip ejected with 2 rounds remaining.

As far as i could tell both ammo was in good shape, not too dirty or anything. (it was a fresh sealed spam can, and brand new ammo otherwise.)

I might have gotten maybe 1 full clip off out of the maybe 60 rounds I fired. I noticed my gas plug was a little loose and tightened' it but still didn't seem to fully resolve the issue.

My searches have yielded the following possible issues.

1. ####ty chamber whether from corrosion or uncleanliness causing the round to not extract properly. (I have now cleaned it and will re test when i go back to the range.
2. The ammo, not being correct ammo. (But its greek surplus that was in a closed can, should be ok. the other ammo perhaps it just is too strong for the rifle)
3. Some other mechanical issue such as extractor problems or weak op rod spring. ( it seems to work well though so i don't believe its this. and if its tearing the top of the brass it seems like its almost too strong)
Would you guys think it would help to take the greek ammo out of their enblocs clean the rounds with a rag or something a bit and put them in new ones?


My only real other option will be to reload which I just got my PAL and will start to get into it shortly but just haven't yet.
I hope my thorough cleaning of the chamber with a brush and multiple passes has cleaned it enough and will result in proper feeding.
I have some more idea's on how I am going to troubleshoot as well. (trying and marking different enbloc clips etc.

I don't know if the pictures help anyone in my diagnosis but i appreciate any insight. I will also try to maybe goto a gunsmith in town and see what they have to say.

in the picture of the 3 rounds the far right is the federal the other two are greek, but even though it seems to tear the federal more, both would still sometimes get stuck in the chamber.










 
Most likely a rough, dirty or rusty chamber which is causing hard extraction of fired cases incl the extractor ripping thru the casehead. This problem can occur in other semi-autos for the same reasons. Scrub/polish the chamber and try again. The Garand combination tool features a chamber cleaning brush to avoid this problem.
 
So i am having a hell of a problem trying to get into the chamber. with the rest of the receiver in the way. I have looked up videos on cleaning the chamber using various small sand paper and scotch brite, as well some polish. but getting access when i don't have a ratching chamber brush didn't seem to clean well enough, i know some videos show a drill for buffing and stuff to try and clean it up but there is no way i can angle it even in there. im trying to find a garand multi tool
 
What works well is a small wire handled bottle brush which fits the chamber tightly. Bend the brush handle in an "L" shape and then work back and forth or rotationally in the chamber with solvent. You can also wrap steel wool around a tight fitting brush in order to polish the chamber as described.

I'd steer clear of sandpaper, aggressive abrasives or power tools until I determined that this might be warranted. In the worst case the chamber might be pitted. If this is the case the barrel would need to be removed to allow the chamber to be polished. Bad chamber pits will continue to cause extraction problems and may require that the barrel be replaced.
 
Chrono8 said:
So i am having a hell of a problem trying to get into the chamber. with the rest of the receiver in the way. I have looked up videos on cleaning the chamber using various small sand paper and scotch brite, as well some polish. but getting access when i don't have a ratching chamber brush didn't seem to clean well enough, i know some videos show a drill for buffing and stuff to try and clean it up but there is no way i can angle it even in there. im trying to find a garand multi tool
Click to expand...

I bought a tool for it made by "Pro Shot".
It's a flexible chamber cleaning tool, has a flexible shaft ,handle on one end and threaded on the other end so you can put a chamber brush or mop on it,works quite well.
 
M1-Garand said:
I bought a tool for it made by "Pro Shot".
It's a flexible chamber cleaning tool, has a flexible shaft ,handle on one end and threaded on the other end so you can put a chamber brush or mop on it,works quite well.
Click to expand...


Ok I'll take a look and see what I can do . Thanks for the input everyone. I'll update if my solution works if it happens to anyone else in the future.
 
Grizzly Adams said:
I'd be looking at every other possibility before I potentially ruined the chamber.Grizz
Click to expand...

I am not sure if your post was directed at mine above yours, but I doubt if a little bit of rotating steel wool is going to remove any of the parent metal in the chamber, esp. if there is some oil in the mix. (I wasn't suggesting a lot of force or a lot of RPM, or a very long application.) Unless you have seen something similar do some damage in the past?
 
ipscgraz said:
I am not sure if your post was directed at mine above yours, but I doubt if a little bit of rotating steel wool is going to remove any of the parent metal in the chamber, esp. if there is some oil in the mix. (I wasn't suggesting a lot of force or a lot of RPM, or a very long application.) Unless you have seen something similar do some damage in the past?
Click to expand...

Even coarse steel wool can scratch.

Grizz
 
Steel wool, think again. Try copper wool, harder than rust but not as hard as steel. Try a magnet on the wool first some are copper plated steel. A bit of oil and elbow grease. If the barrel is toast its toast, with the copper wool you wont be making it any worse.
 
Yeah I tried all methods I seen on the forums and had been reccomend. By hand, cordless drill, oil, steel wool. The guy said it was cleaned up pretty well in the chamber. But the pitting near the front of the chamber was still pretty rough. He was showing me with a bore scope. Perhaps the second round issue started happening because of heat and dirt from the rounds I don't know. Because after I would push out the round and refeed rhe clip it would do it right away again.
 
The reason why a fired case sticks in a pitted chamber and produces the extraction malfunction described is because the expanding brass expands into the pits and delays extraction. You can get away with this in a bolt gun because there is more time for the brass to contract before extraction. Extraction occurs much more rapidly in a semi auto so there is less time for the fired case to contract, thus causing the case to adhere to the interior surface of a pitted chamber.

Pitting is corrosion which equates to lost metal. Polishing with abrasives won't remove pitting. It can, however, remove the surrounding metal to a point where it reaches the same level as the bottom of the pit.

There were established inspection/rejection standards for Garand barrels based on muzzle and throat erosion measured by gauges and pits judged by eye. A pitted chamber will affect extraction to one extent or another so would be a reason for rejection and replacement.
 
purple said:
The reason why a fired case sticks in a pitted chamber and produces the extraction malfunction described is because the expanding brass expands into the pits and delays extraction. You can get away with this in a bolt gun because there is more time for the brass to contract before extraction. Extraction occurs much more rapidly in a semi auto so there is less time for the fired case to contract, thus causing the case to adhere to the interior surface of a pitted chamber.

Pitting is corrosion which equates to lost metal. Polishing with abrasives won't remove pitting. It can, however, remove the surrounding metal to a point where it reaches the same level as the bottom of the pit.

There were established inspection/rejection standards for Garand barrels based on muzzle and throat erosion measured by gauges and pits judged by eye. A pitted chamber will affect extraction to one extent or another so would be a reason for rejection and replacement.
Click to expand...

Ok awesome. Thanks for all the information and wisdom. I'm new to milsurps and firearms in general. So all this knowledge I really appreciate, so that in future i can diagnosis and fix much easier. I already have ordered a new barrel from trade ex.
 
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