M1 Garands ammo specs

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IMR4320

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I'm looking into reloading some ammo into M1 Garand rifle but need to be careful due to piston blowback function.
I have casings (30-06),IMR 4320 powder, which is normally very suitable for -06, Federal 210 primers and Hdy 150 grn. FMJ bulets. I'm looking for some recommendations where would be the starting minimum charge and what to generally watch for. Thanks for any useful tips.
 
Sorry but in 46 years of reloading I have never used IMR-4320 in any of my M1 Garands, I use IMR-4895 95% of the time because that was the powder the M1 was designed around for the correct port pressure.


MASTER PO'S
M1 loads (Courtesy of the NRA)

http://web.archive.org/web/20000620055732/home.att.net/~Masterpo/M1load.htm

Reloading for Semiauto rifles
C.E. Harris
May-June 1989 Handloader 139

PagesfromReloadingSemiautoRifles_zpsf43fe753.jpg


Use nothing slower burning than IMR-4064 or you will damage/bend the op rod.

Inspecting your M1 Garand
http://www.garandgear.com/how-to-grease-your-m1-garand/86-part-inspection

Cleaning your M1 Garand
http://www.garandgear.com/cleaning-your-m1-garand

How to grease your M1 Garand
http://www.garandgear.com/how-to-grease-your-m1-garand

Shooting Commercial Ammunition in your M1 Garand (very good read and info)
http://www.garandgear.com/component/content/article/39-m1-garand-instruction-guides/106-shooting-commercial-ammunition-in-your-m1-garand
 
Last edited:
bigedp51 said:
Sorry but in 46 years of reloading I have never used IMR-4320 in any of my M1 Garands, I use IMR-4895 95% of the time because that was the powder the M1 was designed around for the correct port pressure.


MASTER PO'S
M1 loads (Courtesy of the NRA)

http://web.archive.org/web/20000620055732/home.att.net/~Masterpo/M1load.htm

Reloading for Semiauto rifles
C.E. Harris
May-June 1989 Handloader 139

PagesfromReloadingSemiautoRifles_zpsf43fe753.jpg


Use nothing slower burning than IMR-4064 or you will damage/bend the op rod.

Inspecting your M1 Garand
http://www.garandgear.com/how-to-grease-your-m1-garand/86-part-inspection

Cleaning your M1 Garand
http://www.garandgear.com/cleaning-your-m1-garand

How to grease your M1 Garand
http://www.garandgear.com/how-to-grease-your-m1-garand

Shooting Commercial Ammunition in your M1 Garand (very good read and info)
http://www.garandgear.com/component/content/article/39-m1-garand-instruction-guides/106-shooting-commercial-ammunition-in-your-m1-garand
Click to expand...

I see both H380 and W760 in this table. Both of these are good choices in a .30-06 bolt gun, but are too slow burning for the Garand. Ditto for IMR4320. A few basic guidelines for reloading for the Garand based on thousands of rounds of accurate, safe and reliable handloads:

- only use IMR4895, IMR4064 and H4895. These all generate the correct gas port pressure for the Garand operating system and are capable of excellent accuracy to boot
- stick to 150, 155 and 168gr bullets
- keep cases trimmed to below max OAL
- always FL re-size
- seat primers slightly below flush with the casehead
- don't try to get too many firing cycles out of a piece of brass. The rifle is hard on brass. I discard cases after 5 firings
 
purple said:
I see both H380 and W760 in this table. Both of these are good choices in a .30-06 bolt gun, but are too slow burning for the Garand. Ditto for IMR4320. A few basic guidelines for reloading for the Garand based on thousands of rounds of accurate, safe and reliable handloads:

- only use IMR4895, IMR4064 and H4895. These all generate the correct gas port pressure for the Garand operating system and are capable of excellent accuracy to boot
- stick to 150, 155 and 168gr bullets
- keep cases trimmed to below max OAL
- always FL re-size
- seat primers slightly below flush with the casehead
- don't try to get too many firing cycles out of a piece of brass. The rifle is hard on brass. I discard cases after 5 firings
Click to expand...

I have read many reloading articles by C.E. Harris in our American Rifleman and reloading magazines and have never found his information to be wrong, and the information I posted is from Reloader Magazine.

Reloading for the Semi- Auto - C.E. Harris 1986
http://www.scribd.com/doc/49814099/Reloading-for-the-Semi-Auto-C-E-Harris-1986
 
Hi,

With due respect to all here, the loads coming from Mr Harris appears to be really on the warmer side compared to the MasterPo/NRA listed charges for IMR 4895 and 4064.
I have used the NRA loads for many years w/o problems.
I also believe that the venerable Garands are now 25 years older than when C.E. Harris wrote his paper and I would not use these in my Garands.

Last but not least, the last block of loads in the table from Mr Harris article, for the M1 shows no mention for bullet weight or else and shows slow Winchester ball powder that is certainly not a common choice for loading for the M1 as it is very slow as pointed by Purple.

In my case, I think that better be safe than sorry. I remember selling a nice Garand to a newbie here and sending also loading info and maintenance tips with rifle.
less than a month after, same guy was posting for an op rod.

I inquired about his new gun and he quickly and honestly admitted that he did not believe that a box of factory high performance 180 grs moose hunting ammo could harm the gun and it did.....

Here's some other reloading info for HighPower shooting for Mr Owens (aka jarhead). Certainly more in liune with NRA loads.

http://www.jarheadtop.com/articles_ReloadQuant.htm

regards,

BB



bigedp51 said:
I have read many reloading articles by C.E. Harris in our American Rifleman and reloading magazines and have never found his information to be wrong, and the information I posted is from Reloader Magazine.

Reloading for the Semi- Auto - C.E. Harris 1986
http://www.scribd.com/doc/49814099/Reloading-for-the-Semi-Auto-C-E-Harris-1986
Click to expand...
 
bigedp51 said:
I have read many reloading articles by C.E. Harris in our American Rifleman and reloading magazines and have never found his information to be wrong, and the information I posted is from Reloader Magazine.

Reloading for the Semi- Auto - C.E. Harris 1986
http://www.scribd.com/doc/49814099/Reloading-for-the-Semi-Auto-C-E-Harris-1986
Click to expand...

Mr. Harris is no doubt a good source for reloading info about some things, but I'm afraid that he has it wrong on using H380 and W760 in Garand handloads. I base my experience on thousands of trouble free and accurate loads in approx 50 these rifles using IMR 4895, IMR 4064 and H4895. IMR 4895 was the MILSPEC propellant for a gazillion rounds of military .30-06 ammo using both the 150gr M2 ball bullet and the 168gr AP bullet. Post-WW2 it was also used in match loads with 172gr bullets. Probably not much reason to look beyond that.

Apart from proper functionality in the Garand, these 3 propellants all generate excellent accuracy with a slight nod to IMR 4064. One consideration for recoil (and cost) sensitive shooters is that these propellants will generate the same MV as will slower burning W760 or IMR 4350 which use 5 -7 gr more powder to do so. I keep all of W760, IMR 4350 and H380 on my shelf and really like them for 180gr loads in .30-06 bolt guns, but not in the Garand.

If a person shoots a variety of older MILSURP rifle calibers and wants to rationalize their use of propellants, both IMR 4895 and IMR 4064 come pretty close to being a universal propellant for many popular ctgs incl the 6.5mm Swede, 7x57 Mauser, .30-40 Krag, .30-06, 7.62NATO/.308Win, 7.62x54 Russian, .303 British and 8x57Mauser. They even work very well in the 5.56/.223Rem.

In addition to using the correct practices for Garand handloads, I would urge Garand shooters to learn about the lube points on the rifle and to use grease on them for smooth functioning and minimal wear on operating parts.
 
OK, I'm going to stir the pot here. I've watched these types of threads over the years and always bit my lower lip thinking disaster would strike one day. About 5-6 years ago I got my Winchester Garand since my buddy had one and they were neat to shoot. It came with a broken firing pin which I guess was a pre-cursor of things to come. Doing all the reading on what you should do, have to do, and shouldn't do I loaded up 150 gr FMJs with a couple of the "go-to" powders (H335, IMR4895) and lo and behold it wouldn't cycle ANY of these powders. Even increasing to bolt gun weights, it would not pick up another round after ejecting. After about 6 trips to the range I decided to shoot off my part box of factory 180 grains and lo and behold it functioned beautifully. So I loaded up a few with IMR4831 and Reloader 22 etc just to try and repeat the success, which I did. My next step was to bring my powder choices down as close to IMR4895 as I could and not me but the gun settled on 56grs. of Winchester 760 (it meters very well, so I liked it too). So, sitting here after 7500+ rounds including 2000 rds of the popular tracer rounds floating around on this site, I am still walking this earth with no gun damage. No bent op rod or any other damage. I suspect if the gun was ever to let go it would be due to metal fatigue due to sheer age and round count ;)
As a footnote, in the beginning I did try to have a gunsmith look at it, one who thinks he's pretty $hit-hot, but he declined and made some whining noises that he would need to make multiple trips to the range to test-fire it.
Obviously, I have an anomaly here because my buddy's works flawlessly with IMR4895 but there are exceptions to every rule and I guess mine is one of those. (And no, it doesn't have one of those gas plugs installed.)
I'm not an expert, but that's my 2 cents for what it's worth.
 
If a Garand won't cycle properly when shooting a 150gr FMJ bullet over 46-49gr IMR4895, which is in the range of a MILSPEC ball round, I would put this down to a mechanical cause, rather than a problem with the propellant. A failure to function properly with MILSPEC ammo would cause the rifle to be classed as unserviceable and undergo maintenance and corrective action until it would. In military service "shopping around" for a custom load which might allow the rifle to function when a MILSPEC round would not, wasn't an option.

Short cycling in a Garand can be due to a number of causes including;
-improper lubrication
-undersize/deformed gas piston
-gas cylinder bore oversize/deformed
-gas cylinder loose on barrel
-aperture in gas cylinder not properly located over gas port in barrel
-gas port in barrel undersize or constricted
-barrel OD undersize in gas port area
-gas cylinder screw loose or cracked on inner face
-valve in gas cyl lock screw valve clogged and won't fully close
-op rod binding
-op rod spring broken, binding or too short/too long
-bolt binding in the receiver
-follower rod or follower rod bent or deformed.

I'd be curious to know if the rifle passes the "tilt test" for openers. This will establish whether or not the op rod is binding. To do this remove the rifle from the stock, remove the op rod spring/follower rod, follower arm pin, follower arm, bullet guide, op rod catch, and follower. Leave the handguards, gas cylinder, gas cyl lock, gas screw, operating rod and bolt in place. Next, grasp the rifle by the gas cylinder and the rear of the receiver and tilt the muzzle up to a 60 degree position from horizontal and then to a 60 degree position below the horizontal. The operating rod should freely cycle and the bolt should fully open and close from the weight of the bolt and op rod themselves. Once a binding op rod is ruled out I'd investigate each of the other possible causes.

Your situation would be a tough one to replicate. My best guess is that the different pressure pulse of a slower burning propellant at the gas port is overcoming whatever mechanical problem exists with the rifle that will not permit it to cycle under the gas port pressure that is generated by a MILSPEC round using IMR4895. The Garand receiver is immensely strong and will not fail from the use of any .30-06 round that is assembled within min/max loads in any reloading manual. The problem with using incorrect propellants and bullet weights affects the operating rod which are getting expensive and tough to find. One thing is for sure, after 7500 rds your op rod spring requires replacement. Look for a new one within the min/max length parameters of 19.75-20.25 inches.
 
If anyone noticed I said 95% of my handloads were with IMR-4895 and I didn't give any of my loading data. I did furnish links and "printed" loading information, and I also said the general thumb rule was nothing slower than IMR-4064 in the M1 Garand.

And even after this the online "experts" decided to criticize what a noted and experienced shooter and author had to say. And again these were not my words but someone with far more experience than I have on the subject.

Forgetting this for a moment the problem here is the OP is asking questions in an open forum where anyone can say anything they want........right or wrong.

So I will give the OP a good piece of advice, "BUY" some manuals with M1 Garand loading data.

Learn to use Google and ask Google the right questions, like M1 loading data, loads for the M1 Garand, causes of bent op rods,etc.

If your going to ask questions about the M1 Garand then do it in the right places.

CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program) reloading forum below and the "Home of the M1 Garand" and the people who shoot and reload the M1 Garand in competition.
http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=94

My ego isn't big enough to criticize well known published authors, BUT this doesn't mean there wasn't a typo or printing error.

NOTE to the OP: Right now at castboolits.gunloads.com/ there is a person with the screen name of mutigunner handing out information. The problem with this is mutigunner doesn't cast bullets or even have a reloading press. So ALWAYS double check anything you read on the internet and then check it again......... and then remember this from the X-Files TV show.................................

trust-no-one_zps4697a28f.jpg


The_Truth_Is_Out_There_tagline_zps74d89e15.jpg


And don't believe anything the Marlboro man tells you.

Fumon2_zps03fd7a59.jpg


So remember, there are midgets sitting at their computers pretending to be giants and they are handing out free information.............and its up to you to sort through all the bovine scat and get to the truth.
 
purple said:
If a Garand won't cycle properly when shooting a 150gr FMJ bullet over 46-49gr IMR4895, which is in the range of a MILSPEC ball round, I would put this down to a mechanical cause, rather than a problem with the propellant. A failure to function properly with MILSPEC ammo would cause the rifle to be classed as unserviceable and undergo maintenance and corrective action until it would. In military service "shopping around" for a custom load which might allow the rifle to function when a MILSPEC round would not, wasn't an option.

Short cycling in a Garand can be due to a number of causes including;
-improper lubrication
-undersize/deformed gas piston
-gas cylinder bore oversize/deformed
-gas cylinder loose on barrel
-aperture in gas cylinder not properly located over gas port in barrel
-gas port in barrel undersize or constricted
-barrel OD undersize in gas port area
-gas cylinder screw loose or cracked on inner face
-valve in gas cyl lock screw valve clogged and won't fully close
-op rod binding
-op rod spring broken, binding or too short/too long
-bolt binding in the receiver
-follower rod or follower rod bent or deformed.

I'd be curious to know if the rifle passes the "tilt test" for openers. This will establish whether or not the op rod is binding. To do this remove the rifle from the stock, remove the op rod spring/follower rod, follower arm pin, follower arm, bullet guide, op rod catch, and follower. Leave the handguards, gas cylinder, gas cyl lock, gas screw, operating rod and bolt in place. Next, grasp the rifle by the gas cylinder and the rear of the receiver and tilt the muzzle up to a 60 degree position from horizontal and then to a 60 degree position below the horizontal. The operating rod should freely cycle and the bolt should fully open and close from the weight of the bolt and op rod themselves. Once a binding op rod is ruled out I'd investigate each of the other possible causes.

Your situation would be a tough one to replicate. My best guess is that the different pressure pulse of a slower burning propellant at the gas port is overcoming whatever mechanical problem exists with the rifle that will not permit it to cycle under the gas port pressure that is generated by a MILSPEC round using IMR4895. The Garand receiver is immensely strong and will not fail from the use of any .30-06 round that is assembled within min/max loads in any reloading manual. The problem with using incorrect propellants and bullet weights affects the operating rod which are getting expensive and tough to find. One thing is for sure, after 7500 rds your op rod spring requires replacement. Look for a new one within the min/max length parameters of 19.75-20.25 inches.
Click to expand...

One, some or all of these scenario are likely correct but a smith with this know how didn't/don't exist out here at the time. I did a couple of months into it replace the bolt, op-rod spring and gas cylinder & lock, to no avail. So yes, mechanically something was/is wrong but it being a 43 receiver and a 46 SA barrel, its seen more action than a navy brothel. My point was with using non spec powder not hastening its demise.
 
As one "on line expert" to another, I don't disagree with the advice that you are offering and your endorsement of both IMR4895 and IMR4064 as optimum propellants when reloading for a Garand. This underlines my own experience in preparing thousands of handloads for quite a number of these rifles using IMR4895, IMR4064 and H4895, and I think that this answers the question posed by the OP.

I read Mr. Harris' article and don't have any difficulty with most of what he says, save for his inclusion of the slower burning W760 and H380 in his table of recommended loads. On reading his narrative I note that he is very big on IMR4064 in the .30-06 Garand, which is all to the good, but that he also says that he wouldn't use anything slower than W760, IMR4320 and H380 in a Garand, which means that he rules these 3 in. I've never used anything other than the 3 preferred powders in a Garand, seeing no need to do so by reason of the accuracy, safety and reliability (and economy) which they have produced for me. Besides, why deviate too far from the MILSPEC propellant which was proven in countless millions of rounds of service ammunition. Maybe I'm being overly timid, but I won't even use the much touted Varget in a Garand by reason of it's slower burning rate. I think a bit of caution and advice to color within the established lines is a good thing when trying to assist a new reloader.

I do use all of the slower burning W760, IMR4320, H380, Varget and IMR4350 in the .30-06 when reloading for my M1903 Springfields and M1917 Enfields, with a special nod to IMR4350 and W760 for 180gr hunting loads, but they just don't appear on my bench when I'm reloading for a Garand. Funnily enough, good old IMR4064 and IMR4895 often turn in the best results in a bolt gun as well. Sierra recommends IMR 4064 for accuracy loads in the .30-06 using all of 150gr, 165gr and 168gr bullets. They also recommend both IMR4895 and IMR4064 for use in a Garand. I'm happy to defer to that and to my own experience, and that kind of gets us all back to the need to consult a reliable reloading manual before doing anything.
 
American Rifleman for March of 1986 has a good write up on powders to use which includes the powders mentioned as well as IMR3031 which I have been using for 10 years with great success. If anyone wants I can email the scanned copy to you.
 
Win Shooter said:
One, some or all of these scenario are likely correct but a smith with this know how didn't/don't exist out here at the time. I did a couple of months into it replace the bolt, op-rod spring and gas cylinder & lock, to no avail. So yes, mechanically something was/is wrong but it being a 43 receiver and a 46 SA barrel, its seen more action than a navy brothel. My point was with using non spec powder not hastening its demise.
Click to expand...

If the rifle passes the "tilt test" and in view of the parts you have replaced, I'd focus on the gas supply to the gas cylinder. In the absence of military gauges you can check the following critical areas as fols: Source is the Kuhnhausen Shop manual on the M1/M14.

Gas piston OD should mic at least .525
Barrel OD where gas cylinder surrounds the gas port should mic at least .5991
Gas port in barrel min/max diameter using appropriate size drill shanks is .0790/.0805

Your rifle intrigues me and I'd like to see it operating within specs. After 7500 rds by yourself and an unknown number of rds before that, the barrel probably doesn't owe you much and I'd think about replacing it. My hunch is that it would run just fine with IMR48945/IMR4064 in a new barrel.
 
IMR3031 is within the ball park for use in a Garand and it should do well with 150gr bullets. IMR3031 was the original propellant for the 7.62 NATO round and was once used in preparing military match ammo for the 7.62. It is still an excellent choice in an M14 or a bolt gun with 150-168gr bullets. It gave me the most accurate 150gr loads in my H&R M14.
 
EO 30-501AB-2 (25 Feb 72)
CF Technical Description and Maintenance, Cartridge .30 in All Types
Section F- Part 4

Ball, M2, Powder IMR 4895 50 grains, Bullet wt 152 grains, Muzzle Velocity 2,800 fps
 
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