m14 barrel chop

[Obtunded]

Bu chopping, I'm assuming that you know you lose the ability to mount the USGI flash eliminator, and thus, you must either use an alternative front sight, or use a scope. The M-14 barrels actually flare wider at the muzzle to a width that allows cutting of the oblique groove indices for the flash hider and adding the castle nut threads.

Strictly speaking, shorter/longer has no effect on accuracy. There are trade-offs. Most of the accuracy influences on an M-14 (outside of barrel quality) occur from the mechanical movements, and the controllability of the rifle. (10" twists contribute to excessive torque...12" are better)

 

[tiriaq]

Most shortened rifles use a front sight that replaces the gas cylinder lock.
Incidentally, it is a really good idea to check the diameter of the barrel where a flashider or brake is going to be installed after the barrel is shortened; make sure there will be enough meat to thread for the muzzle unit.

 

[M14Doctor]

developing an alternative to the gas lock front sight was a big priority with so many barrel chops going across my bench. WIDE variances in machining tolerances between gas assemblies left MANY shortened M14s rifles with navy or gas lock front sights canted a few degrees to one side, giving the impression of an out of index barrel.... when in fact the barrel was bang on, We find this same situation with MOST chinese flash hiders as well.
I came up with what i have found to be the perfect solution...... permanently afix a front sight dovetail , at the correct height, to the forward gas assembly ring, allowing for the standard front sight to be attached without interfering with the gas lock. A bonus for cleaning as well as the gas lock front sights must be rindexed and resighted in after any removal of the gas assembly or gas plug for cleaning purposes. As I practice an every 300 round complete tear down, clean and lube regimen, having a front sight on the shorties that does not move out of index on removal of the gas system is a big plus.
I'll never use a gas lock style front sight on a shorty again
details can be found by clicking the link in my sig line.

The 1/2 x 28 thread that we apply to the shortened M14 barrel is also a plus as there are many affordable options for brakes and flash hiders in this thread pattern. IE: any AR 15 brake/FH with sufficient thickness to be reamed out for a .308 bullet, will work wonderfully. For those wanting Vortex type FH, we can install the Dlask NAV-14 , a very popular option I have found. Currently I install NAV-14, Dlask A6 brake and Dlask BULL Comp/brake, and couple with the ultimate front sight solution I mention above, The "what to do for a front sight and what to hang on the end of the barrell? " question now has a made in Canada option.

 

[M14Doctor]

OOPS:

I've had MANY M14 TAKE OFF barrels shortened by Dlask,
with never a problem. Excellent work, very accurate threads concentric to the bore, very nice Crown.
HOWEVER,
months ago, IMMEDIATELY AFTER JOE MOVED HIS SHOP,
I took over FIVE M14 rifles to be shortened, WITHOUT removing the barrels from the receivers.

I picked them up without checking,
expecting the usual superb workmanship,
BUT,
when I got home ALL FIVE OF THE CHOP JOBS HAD THREADS THAT WERE NOT PERFECTLY CONCENTRIC WITH THE BORE, and the so called crowning job was pathetic. Plus, there were new marks on the previously unmarked M14 receivers, where they had been chucked up in the lathe.

I was NOT HAPPY!!!! One muzzle was so far off center from the threads that I had to replace a compensator because .308" bullets hit a .350" bore hole when I test fired for sight in. I had to make another trip back to Vancouver, to have Joe RE-do all of the crowning, which he did for free, but I was still out over $100 for the ferry fees.

So, irregardless of any claims about "JIGS" or "FOUR JAW CHUCKS",
I personally will continue removing the barrels from the receivers for my M14 chop jobs. This extra bit of work removing and replacing the barrels seems to me to result in a much more consistent quality muzzle job.

Of course,
YPMMV,
LAZ 1
[;{()

interesting..... I wonder if Joe himself cut them or one of the employees...... I insist that Joe does all my work personally and am generally on site when the work gets done. Never an issue, but once an employee did not ream an A6 brake fully and I had a return on the brake as the bullets were making contact. All was set right on that one.

 

[Claven2]

My worst Dlask M14 experience was on a muzzle brake. they opened up a .223 brake to 7.62 and when I got it, they had not broken any of the edges. It was also clear they had drilled it on a lather and not reamed it as I had asked for - you can tell by the surface finish if you know what to look for. I ended up having to brake the edges myself with a bevel cutter, polish the port and re-park the brake.

Truth be told, I MUCH prefer the work done at Gunco in Ottawa to anything I've ever gotten out of Dlask

 

[Satain]

Bu chopping, I'm assuming that you know you lose the ability to mount the USGI flash eliminator, and thus, you must either use an alternative front sight, or use a scope. The M-14 barrels actually flare wider at the muzzle to a width that allows cutting of the oblique groove indices for the flash hider and adding the castle nut threads.

Strictly speaking, shorter/longer has no effect on accuracy. There are trade-offs. Most of the accuracy influences on an M-14 (outside of barrel quality) occur from the mechanical movements, and the controllability of the rifle. (10" twists contribute to excessive torque...12" are better)

The main reason why most off us M14 owner's do this "chop mod" is the shear lacking of USGI shorty barrels or other substitute barrel's avaible for our rifle's. I know at least 20 people that if given the chance to swap there nork barrels for say a Krieger or Douglas barrel would do it in a heart beat as this is the only area in witch all norks have seen are seriously issues with in Q/C. Also I agree with most chopper fans that the shorter barrel length provide's less "whip" & this is a good thing.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[Claven2]

Actually, as I recall, you CAN buy Krieger barrels in Canada for M14's. They are pricey though at $500 without any fitting.

Honestly though, once the Norinco barrels are properly indexed, they often make very nice shooters.

 

[Kaiser_Sose]

Ok, so Dlask made the crown or the muzzle thread crooked? Welcome to the club. It happened to me not once, not twice, but three times, once on a short AR-15 barrel, once on a M-14 and once on a bolt action. All the work was done by the same employee, the one that goes by the name of Russell, although every time I insisted Joe Dlask should do the work.

That company problem is his employees and associates first, and the fact that Joe tolerates that state of affairs secondly. Those employees incompetence, carelessness and arrogance (especially Russell) have reached unthinkable levels. I am so fed up and disgusted by this individual's attitude and incompetence.
In the last year or so, almost every time I go there, when Joe is not in, I find Russell doing nothing, or in the front office surfing the net, or being caught in incredibly stupid discussions with the other idiot, the one that I didn't see there in the last weeks (I hope he doesn't work there anymore). If you still don't understand, he is getting paid by me and you to f**k around and do sub-standard work.
But ironically, when Joe is there, Russell tries to look like he is busy and paying attention to his work, working for his wages

Hello, Joe Dlask, are you listening to this? Are you reading this? Do you care about your business?


Dlask has excellent products. But obviously, their services are crap, for the reasons above. Consequently, I stopped dealing with them. I recommend you do the same, at least until Joe comes to his senses and takes care of the situation in his company.

 

[M14Doctor]

interesting......
i do not deal with any other gunsmiths for my personal firearms, I service them all myself, but for the running of the lathe for turning chrome lined barrels ( i do my own barrel work for non chrome barrels) i bring in..... Joe does them all personally and i inspect every one and can vouch for the quality of work HE performs personally. Hell, how many cgn'ers here have had thier barrels go through my hands, to joe's and back to them.........hundreds now? I'd ballpark it somewhere between 200 to 300 and others here can vouch for those numbers.... I have had ZERO clients or clinic attendees coming back to me complaining of a messed up barrel. And those of you who DO have a messed up barrel attributed to dealings with me...... speak up.

I won't divulge here my personal feelings on issues about Joe's staff being raised, BUT on and offline there does seem to be a gathering sentiment..... and other than this post i will not discuss my thoughts hehehe. BUT joe's employees are in fact regular cgn members and without a doubt this thread is being monitored. I fixed FAR more screwed up M14 rifles that were worked on by other "reputable and known to cgn gunsmiths" but you do not see folks distastefully ranting in the open, dropping names and such. Do and say what you will however because I understand that when things don't get done right and it becomes a reputation threatening affair..... changes must be made...... and perhaps your venting here will be seen by Joe and he can think on what's been said in this thread.

For Laz to openly disapprove of dlask in the open forum speaks pretty loud to me. As for my knowledge and personal experience, the two are personal friends........ or were..... but then again, that's none of my business. I go see a man, who has a lathe, and he does excellent work.... at least for me anyways Sometimes I have had to wait a few weeks for Joe to personally find the time to get to the barrels i bring in for cutting/crowning.... but it has always been worth it in the end.

as for me, I am a 10 year customer and aquaintance of Joe's, I do not consider myself his "friend", but he has always treated me fairly, never abused priviledged information on my business or product design, and has always done excellent work.

I am glad however that regardless of dlask's reputation with some, I will soon be turning chrome lined barrels as well..... so it will be all on me if i bugger one up hehehehehe I'm pretty good with a lathe though, having many years experience in the custom metal fabrication industries...... now if i could only master the tig welding..... and a cnc machine.......