M14 failure at first shot...

S

spirit

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Hi!

I just comeback from shoting range. I have try my new M14, but the riffle did not work. It did not cycle correctly. The bolt did not push the amunition in the chamber. The empty shell get extracted but the newcartrige stay in the Mag and did not enter in the chamber...

If I #### again the riffle, it reload normally...!!! And I can shot... For the moment my M14 is "ZERO-Automatic".

Anyone have an idea about what could cause that???

Thank you!

PS: I appologize for my bad english.
 
Did you disassemble and clean it before taking it to the range? It's possible something like grease or cosmoline preservative may have been in the gas system, gumming up the piston enough to prevent a proper bolt velocity. You should disassemble and clean it in detail, then try again. Also, did you ensure the magazine was fully seated? If the mag release was not fully clicked in, it could cause feeding issues.
 
1st thing is to check the spindle valve on side of gas cylinder. If it's in wrong position the gas system is off and your rifle will short stroke.... Which is what you describe
2nd ensure gas plug is tight
And checking for grease and foreign crap in gas cylinder is a good idea too.
 
The gun have been clean from cosmoline... I have use hoppe's products for lubrification... The trigger group have been polish. The valve have the proper position (vertical). But I just discover something... The gaz cylinder lock wasn't perferctly thigh. When I have remove the gaz cylinder plug, the lock was loose. One complete turn was missing to make it thigh. I hope the problem was comming from that.

I have seen shim for that on Marstar... Is it better to use them?

The only other issue I can see could be the recoil buffer... Maybe I could remove it...

Thank You all
 
you DO know the magazine is not a push- in?-that's what happens if the mag is not LOCKED AT THE REAR- very common on first timers- they insert the nose but leave the a** hanging out- you'll hear a click when it's done correctly
 
You can laugh Dsiwy... lololol It was my beginner error...

For the possible magazine issue, I will put attention on it when I will return to the range. thank you.
 
spirit said:
You can laugh Dsiwy... lololol It was my beginner error...

For the possible magazine issue, I will put attention on it when I will return to the range. thank you.
Click to expand...

I was laughing with you Spirit :) I have broken afew guns in my past so your still ahead of me ;)
 
spirit said:
The gun have been clean from cosmoline... I have use hoppe's products for lubrification... The trigger group have been polish. The valve have the proper position (vertical). But I just discover something... The gaz cylinder lock wasn't perferctly thigh. When I have remove the gaz cylinder plug, the lock was loose. One complete turn was missing to make it thigh. I hope the problem was comming from that.

I have seen shim for that on Marstar... Is it better to use them?

The only other issue I can see could be the recoil buffer... Maybe I could remove it...

Thank You all
Click to expand...

1) You are not supposed ot lube the gas system - it is run dry. Lubing it with oil will turn your fouling into "cement" for lack of a better term and will cause your rifle to short-stroke.

2) The gas lock *could* be a problem because if cylinder was moved forward enough when you tightened the plug, you might not have the barrel gas bleed hole lined up with the inlet for the gas cylinder, again causing short stroking if it's partially blocked, or no stroking if completely blocked.

3) Shimming the cylinder is not enough difference to change the amount of gas entering the cylinder, it's for ensurign the cylinder sits tight to the handguard bracket to improve accuracy and consistency of action stroke.
 
It doesn`t sound like a short stroke to me. He clearly stated that the fired case was ejected and it sounds like the bolt tried to pick up the next round but didn`t have enough energy to strip it. This could result from a weak recoil spring or a the mag being incorrectly put together, making for excessive friction on the lips.
 
Loose gas plug? I've done that many times right before a match, too. ooops!

Just give it a 'tug' with the combo tool or any 3/8" box wrench. ONE hand tight! :D

Cheers,
Barney
 
BattleRife said:
It doesn`t sound like a short stroke to me. He clearly stated that the fired case was ejected and it sounds like the bolt tried to pick up the next round but didn`t have enough energy to strip it. This could result from a weak recoil spring or a the mag being incorrectly put together, making for excessive friction on the lips.
Click to expand...

We actually saw this today at the range. A newbie installing a 5 round mag. Didn't get the front hook to catch. Result, short stroke, case ejected, no new round as it didn't go back far enough to grab the new round. Watching him fire a second time to see what was going on I could actually see the op rod not moving back all the way.
 
I think I have clip correctly the magazine but I will be more careful next time... I just remove the recoil buffer buffer. If the gun shoot correctly next time, I will try to reinstall it to see if it was the gas tube lock or the recoil buffer.

Thank you again all!
 
I had the exact same happen last year with mine.

I thought it was due to working up a hand loads - wrong. I picked Hungary’s & Doc’s brains about it - they both gave the same suggestions – white grease.

The repeated FTF’s were from not enough lubrication. A standard light coating of CLP, or similar oil, in the action doesn’t cut it with these rifles. Read Skullboy’s & all the other hints & tips carefully. Once I started using generous amounts of white lithium grease on the roller and all other contact surfaces in the receiver (except the bolt face) my issues disappeared.

I also highly recommend the M14 clinic when it comes to your area.
 
powmia56 said:
We actually saw this today at the range. A newbie installing a 5 round mag. Didn't get the front hook to catch. Result, short stroke, case ejected, no new round as it didn't go back far enough to grab the new round. Watching him fire a second time to see what was going on I could actually see the op rod not moving back all the way.
Click to expand...

Yup... And it was my personal rifle too ;) gotta teach my baby brother a thing or two about mags and m14's hehehe

Any time the rifle fires a round and fails to have the inertia to reload the next round.... Is the definition of a short sstroke
Most often we look at the gas system first
-spindle valve
-gas plug
-verify with 1/16 drill rod that gas port is clear by passing up thru hole in bottom of cylinder. Shine bore light to verify drill rod passes thru cylinder into barrel
- verify visible piston vacuum by holding rifle muzzle up, oprod removed, and push piston into cylinder, quickly remove finger, if it drops slow... This is good.... If it drops like a stone..... Here"s your culprit... You need a new piston
- crap in cylinder, carbon build up in gas plug and piston hollows
- lubricant in gas system- these are dry gas systems and operating with lube of any kind in there will surely destroy your gas system in short order

Oprods and oprod tracks with burrs, especially on out of index rifles and on very tight fitting oprods cause the oprod travel speed to be hindered and can cause short strokes.
Oprod rubbing on the stock up near where the oprop arm ends , classic issue on some chinese stocks.

Improperly seated magazine ' if it's very difficult to seat the mag, a small amount of polishing can be done to the mags rear tab on the bottom edge the mag catch locks on. Don't go crazy, just polish until you can seat the mag and hear the mag catch click as it engages

There"s many other causes of short strokes, but the above are more common.
 
PS:

I missed that you have a recoil buffer. Buffers are BAD. The buffer ensures the rearward inertia of the bolt is fully absorved by the oprod, which is not good. The M14 was designed to distribute the arresting of the rearward inertia between the oprod (hitting the face of the receiver under control of the operating rod spring) and the heel of the receiver (the bolt's rear impacts inside the heel without the roller slamming into the oprod roller cam being hammered since the oprod stops moving a micro-second before the bolt does).

If you use a buffer you risk prematurely bending your oprod, peening the roller cam in the oprod hump, damaging the bolt roller, and you compromise reliability by increasing the liklihood of a limited bolt stroke (i.e. short stroking).

I don not use them and don't recommend anyone else use them either.
 
It probably won't. It's pretty uncommon, even on a Norinco, that the gas system is too loose in the cylinder to provide sufficient firing force.

In order of liklihood, I'd say your gas lock being out a full revolution probably affected the volume of flow. That, coupled with you running the cylinder dry and oil free and takin out the buffer will likely solve things.

Also, grease the heck out of the bolt roller, the bolt, the op rod, the operating spring and inside the receiver heel where the bolt bears.

I'd bet this will solve things for you.
 
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