M1886/89 Kropatschek Infantry Rifle Colonial-- calibre ?

Shooter55

Shooter55

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Hi all - just picked up this lovely old rifle. according to what I have read, the caliber is 8mmx60? Or 8mm?
I am assuming this ammo is probably difficult to find...the 8mm ammo on Canada ammo is not the correct ammo, correct...if anyone can steer me in the right direction, let me know.
Thanks
 
Check the calgary gunshow next year, you might find ammo, but even if you do they are most likely duds. Rolling your own for these rifles is for the advanced handloader. Although Bertram might make brass and others like buffalo arms as well. Be prepared for sticker shock.

The new 8x56R ammo being sold is NOT correct for these rifles.
 
They started with 8x60R but later changed to 8x56R
There was no mods done to the chamber when they changed & so some problems may arise using 8x60R in a rifle that has fired many rounds of 8x56R but most importantly, there are a few rounds designated 8x56R but ONLY ONE is correct, be sure you have "8x56R Kropatchek"

Whilst the ammo is very scarce, the wooden projectiles blanks can be found & will be you best bet for cases for reloading, otherwise you either modify/make up some cases or hang it on a wall.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?9411-RELOAD-8x56-R-8x60-R-Kropatschek

http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Bolt...ng the Kropatchek tubular magazine system.htm

http://www.militaryrifles.com/Portugal/PortKrop.htm
 
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5th Batt has a very good point: the 8x56R in this case is the 8x56R KROPATSCHEK. It is emphatiaclly NOT the 8x56R Mannlicher 30M or M.31 (which are the same cartridge but are NOT the KROP round).

And I thought Metric was supposed to make things simpler!

BTW, there is also an 8x56 MS, which is RIMLESS. Again, NOT the right one!

The cartridge you need is difficult to find, brass is enough to scare you out of a year's growth.... but it is an easy one to FAKE.

What you do is get a rifle and get your grubby little mittens on a single ORIGINAL cartridge. You will notice that the BASE of the cartridge has a substantial BEVEL to it. This is not simply cosmetic; the Bolt-face of your Rifle is contoured to REQUIRE this bevel. I have 2 Krops; one is looser than the other, but both NEED this bevel, one rifle more than the other.

NOW you hit the link to the Trade-Ex website, go to "products", go to "Reloading Supplies" and order yourself a bag or 2 of 8x50R LEBEL brass.

When the Lebel brass arrives, you will note that it has a very slight bevel to the rim. That is because it is modern brass; the original stuff had a much greater bevel.

So you make up a .320" spud so the necks don't collapse, chuck the Lebel brass into a lathe and re-cut that Base Bevel so that it matches the one on your original cartridge.

You now can load the Lebel brass into your Krop rifle and it will work, although it WILL be short. This all is possible because the French started devlopment on their Lebel Rifle..... with a Krop Model 1874 chambered for the Gras cartridge which had similar bevel!

You need a .326" bullet of 247 grains and there ain't no setch of a animule..... so you get a mould for the 225-grain Mauser & Commission 8mm slug from Mid-South Shooters' Supply and cast your own.

Original charge was 70 grains of Black, this being the very LAST Black-powder military cartridge to be introduced. BARNES gives 28 grains of 4198 to produce 1670 ft/sec with a 175 jacketed slug. Personally, I would stick with CAST because they WILL fill the bore if you smack them on their base the right way.

I know that our friend Talquin (on this forum) is loading for this rifle; see what he says.

I think I would try to run one with about 12 grains of Red Dot and the cast bullet, see what that does.

If you could get the right bullets, you could duplicate Factory performance with 26.6 grains of SR-4759, duplicate original pressures as well.

Good luck!
 
I've a long running joke with my LGS "got that 8x60R Kropatchek in stock yet!"
I had one of the short rifles but sold it to buy another SMLE as i needed a fix :)
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Only DIMENSIONAL difference between the Lebel and the Krop cartridges was the length of the NECKS.

When the French developed their Lebel rifle, they had only 90 days to design a rifle and ammo to feed the thing. They cut corners wonderfully.

Their starting-point was the Krop rifle, which had the most advanced tube magazine made, equipped with an INTERRUPTOR so that the rifle could not double-feed (and thus jam up solid) with short rounds.

This is why you can get away with short ammo. To make things easier on the rifle, though, seat your bullets OUT.

Flat-nosed bullets are a MUST with a tube magazine, of course: prevents chain ignitions during recoil.

The Red Dot load will give you almost ZERO barrel wear. Good thing to know. Performance will be rather close to original.

These are absolutely BEAUTIFUL rifles, made to the very highest standards.

We are very fortunate to have them here; very few actually survive.
 
Yep they are an absolutely beautifully made rifle & hold a important part of magazine feed rifle history, one of the few rifles i regret selling.
 
i ended up with both the long and short rifle all matching no.s and non matching bayos in a trade. Beautiful rifles but of no use to me due to no available ammo...
 
Ammo can be made from 348 Winch brass. Set shoulder back and size neck in an 8mm Lebel die and bevel rim as detailed above. Case length will be near 56mm.
 
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