m1905ms

[Hawkeye]

well i have a m 1905 ms in 9x56 that has had the stock carved up and the barrel is toast. i am planning on having the barrel changed out and what ever work might need to be done to change it to 35 whalen. i dont think this will be a problem as some of the reloads that came with the rifle are 3006 cases expanded to .358 basically a 35 whalen to the best of my knowledge. can anyone think why this might not be as easy as i think it'll be??

 

[buffdog]

M-S system

Yes, I can think of a very big one. The magazine length. A 30-06 length case is much longer than the 9x56 case, and probably will not feed properly through the magazine. Also, the feed rails would have to be altered slightly. If you compare the cases you have marked "30-06", you will find out that they are much shorter than a factory 30-06. Someone MADE 9x56 brass out of 30-06 cases. If the brass cases are the same length, you do NOT have a 9x56 chamber, and someone has altered the chamber by boring it out. (This is the least likely scenario, because of the difference in length of the two Original Factory cartridges.

Basic available cases are used by people for cartridge conversions, where they take a commonly available case (the 30-06 for example) and shorten it to make other hard to get calibres. I have a book called "Cartridge Conversions". It is about 2 inches thick, and covers almost every cartridge ever made, and tells how to make cases for obsolete and long forgotten calibres along with modern ones.

You might consider the .358 Winchester. Although slightly shorter at 51 mm long, it would work better than the .35 Whelan.

But then again, why change the Calibre at all? The 9x56 uses the same diameter bullets so the barrel would be no problem. Reloading dies are available, and functioning would be the same in the rifle. Or, you might even consider the 8x57 Mauser. North American factory loads are anemic, but check out the specs on European loadings.

 

[40-82]

Hawkeye,
Something to keep in mind about the 1905 MS is that the rotary magazine was made by old world craftsmen and was cut to exactly fit the factory 9X56 cartridge. As indicated above, cartridge length is one concern, the other is to find a cartridge that will exactly fit the close-tolerance rotary magazine. Unless you use something that duplicates the original cartridge exactly, you will have to single load it. The result is that you can put a 35 Whalen barrel on it and load the cartridge directly in the chamber i.e. the magazine is redundant.

I either replied to one of your earlier posts or sent you a PM (can't remember) mentioning that I use a 9X56 cartridge but reload with a Lyman 9mm cast bullet. Even these cartridges won't fit the magazine as the cast bullet doesn't exactly duplicate the original so they have to be single-loaded. As mentioned above, check the chamber as someone may have already rechambered it although it may make no difference if the barrel is no longer useable. Nothing wrong with having a single-shot bolt action. These old MS rifles are top-quality.

On second thought, make up a dummy of the intended cartridge and make sure the action is long enough to accept it.

 

[Hawkeye]

yeah thats becoming a problem i'm trying to find something based on the 30-06 case style as i know they function flawlessly in that magazine but with out goin over 3.055 oal. my 30-06 snap caps function in the mag but my actual loads are about 2 thou to long. so now i'm not to sure what my next option might be but i'm goin to be looking for something. the biggest part of the problem is now that i've decided to go ahead and breath new life into this rifle i want something thats goin to be easier to feed as i haven't been able to find much of any info online on the old 9x56.

 

[40-82]

Hawkeye,
30-06 brass is often used as a parent brass however, I found the 8mm Mauser brass as more suitable (less trimming/forming) to make the MS cartridge. Because the 8mm Mauser and the 9mm MS are very close in dimensions (except for bullet diam.), the 8mm Mauser may be a possible conversion for your rifle. I've reformed all my 8mm brass to 9mm so can't try this out but if you can round up a few 8mm cartridges, you could see if they will function in the mag. If not perhaps by trimming them slightly shorter, they may work. Of course this is not an ideal situation as the shorter cartridge will mean more of a "jump" for the bullet to make in the new chamber. Another thing you may have to do to make the 8mm work is to have the magazine rotar recut to accept the slightly different shoulder, etc. This may be prohibitively expensive though. Maybe the easiest thing to do is just rebarrel it as the original 9mm MS.

Don't give up on the MS. I read somewhere (Rifle magazine?) that the MS (Steyr) is very comparable to the Mk V Weatherby. See also http://www.chuckhawks.com/compared_mannlicher_weatherby.htm.
40-82