M305 for Tac Rifle matches?

Slamfyre

Slamfyre

Regular
EE Expired
Location
Langley, BC
In 2016 I went through my first season of tac rifle matches. I enjoyed it quite a bit. I used my VZ58 for all the matches, but I've been thinking about taking the M305 for match or two. One of the first disadvantages is the added weight. I'm wondering if I should chop down the barrel and make it a shorty. If I were to do that, I might as well re-thread it and put in a loudener that tames down recoil and muzzle flip more effectively than the factory flash hider.

I was also thinking of swaping the 3-9x scope I currently have to something that starts at 1x for use with both eyes open for short range and can go up to 6x at least for longer range. I do not want to lose the range advantage that 7.62x51 offers over 7.62x39. My VZ58 only uses a holosun 403C red dot - no magnification, and that feels sufficient for the capabilities of the round. But for the M305, the higher up in magnification I can go, the better -- chopped up barrel notwithstanding.

So, Barney et al, is this a bad idea? Am I butchering/bubbaing up a perfectly fine rifle that is not meant to be used like this? What other suggestions might you have? Should I just stay with my VZ58 for tacmatches? And no, I'm not buying an AR.

This is how my M305 look right now:

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Let's back up a bit.... Tac rifle matches? That's a broad statement. Let's narrow it down to the CoF or course of fire:

* Service Rifle
* Service CQB matches
* Precision Rifle matches

The M14 is a versatile platform. For CQB and SR, the cost of ammo is quite prohibitive. For PR we've had a few competitors show up and enjoy themselves because the M305 and it's variants are fun to shoot. Winning the matches with an M14 has not happened too much in our matches over the past couple of seasons, but it can be done; just a matter of how much you want to pay to tweak this platform when a box stock Savage or SPS Tac can shoot smaller groups with a tuned trigger and better optics mounting platform than the various M14 mounts. :cool:

Here's a picture of M14 rifles in action at my sniper matches shot in Garrison Petawawa:



Okay, photobucket is a PITA right now. ... will try later on...





Let's see if I can find some more pictures of M14 fun at PR matches....

Cheers,
Barney
 
He means IPSC with a rifle, but without all the black badge requirements.

I would think you'd be better off getting a 223 than shooting a 308 mostly due to $$ per round. And added recoil from the full size battle rifle cartridge.

For optics above go with the primary arms.
 
TacticalTeacher said:
Let's back up a bit.... Tac rifle matches? That's a broad statement. Let's narrow it down to the CoF or course of fire:

* Service Rifle
* Service CQB matches
* Precision Rifle matches
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These are the guys that I shot with last year: http://www.dssmatch.com/. It's not precision rifle, but almost every match (all?) will have a "long distance" stage that can go to 100 yds. There's been moving targets at 50 or 60 yds. Most of the stages would fall into CQB, though.
 
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bsand said:
He means IPSC with a rifle, but without all the black badge requirements.

I would think you'd be better off getting a 223 than shooting a 308 mostly due to $$ per round. And added recoil from the full size battle rifle cartridge.

For optics above go with the primary arms.
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Thanks for clarifying about IPSC, Kam. Sightmark goes all the way up to 10x. Primary Arms only does up to 8x. Have you heard bad things about Sightmark? I have some Norinco copper washed 308 I could use in a few tacmatches. Besides, I could re-invest some of the savings I gathered by shooting 21 cent x39 rounds into more surplus 308.

I was forgetting to mention that I do have a couple of legal 10 rnd mags that work well in my M305. I could get more and magwedge them all. With the VZ58 I'm eternally handicapped to 5rnds.

As for the recoil, I was planning on getting something like this loudener: http://hical.ca/competition-compact-muzzle-brake-5-8x24-tpi-30/
ss_competition_brake__83701.1445555028.1280.1280.jpg
 
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I remember you from the CASE course. Very few people will run main battle rifles. We've had a guy use a Garand once and he did quite well as he was a long time shooter and gunsmith. The length of the 305 along with the weight and recoil makes it a poorer choice than your VZ. I would lighten your VX by removing the bipod and use it this year.
Even though there are distance stages, it's only one stage usually and only 100m at TMSA and 200 at Chwk. All hitable with un- magnified RDSs. Besides, you may have trouble getting the 305 through the VTAC boards if equipped with a scope. Remember, you cannot change out gear/ stage.
I would avoid the expense of modding the 305 and buying a scope IF your main concern is TAC rifle. If you want to do it for other reasons, like Barney's courses and service rifle, then go for it.
If I could offer one advice, it's to forget modding a heavy rifle platform and use the money to get a cheaper AR, even a Norc, and you'll be immediately more competitive.
 
Still alive said:
I remember you from the CASE course. Very few people will run main battle rifles. We've had a guy use a Garand once and he did quite well as he was a long time shooter and gunsmith. The length of the 305 along with the weight and recoil makes it a poorer choice than your VZ. I would lighten your VX by removing the bipod and use it this year.
Even though there are distance stages, it's only one stage usually and only 100m at TMSA and 200 at Chwk. All hitable with un- magnified RDSs. Besides, you may have trouble getting the 305 through the VTAC boards if equipped with a scope. Remember, you cannot change out gear/ stage.
I would avoid the expense of modding the 305 and buying a scope IF your main concern is TAC rifle. If you want to do it for other reasons, like Barney's courses and service rifle, then go for it.
If I could offer one advice, it's to forget modding a heavy rifle platform and use the money to get a cheaper AR, even a Norc, and you'll be immediately more competitive.
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But, if the Garand guy does not show up again, I would have the most macho rifle of the season... This is the kind of stuff that makes you a ###ual tyrannosaurus. All kidding aside, I'm not intending to have the M305 replace the VZ58 as the main match gun. But I do want to use it in matches every now and then. It is just so damn heavy when I do practice runs with it at home, and that is with no ammo weight.

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Shortening the barrel will be minimal weight savings. Most of the M305 weight is in the action, receiver and stock. Lighter stock makes for a very barrel heavy rifle.

We rarely have ladies at the DSSMatches, so your ###ual tyrannosaurdom will go unrequited...
 
The Garand guy shoots black powder now and his knees are buggered so I think your ###ual tyrannosaur is fine. Except there was a guy who ran a XCR-M! He had issues with the weight also and could not get the barrel through the VTAC ports.
It's your rifle and your choice. Good on you to play outside the box. See you at the playground!
 
If the ammo cost isn't an issue and you're not trying to be competitive, go for it. A few people ran 308s in IPSC rifle last summer and while they were at a distinct disadvantage, they sure had fun.

The main issues were that the recoil slowed follow-up shots, and many were using 5 round mags rather than 50 Beowulf mags. 3X more mag changes has a huge impact on times. The M305s that were run are also slower with mag changes than AR10-type rifles.
 
Phat Eagle said:
Shortening the barrel will be minimal weight savings. Most of the M305 weight is in the action, receiver and stock. Lighter stock makes for a very barrel heavy rifle.
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Yes. It is barrel heavy right now. Regardless of tacmatches, this rifle can use some weight loss, specially at the front. As for getting an AR, I try to stay away from restricteds. It is just too frustrating having to comply with our wonderful laws around restricteds. A few days ago I was thinking about arranging a quick trip to Texada Island with my VZ58 to grab one of those dog sized blacktails. An AR would not be allowed to do so.

I only have one restricted, a High Standard Supermatic Trophy 22LR handgun. And I only got it because my grandpa had one almost identical and my dad lost it. So when I stumbled upon it at Reliable Gun, I had to have it. It was a sentimental impulse buy. My 8 year old loves to shoot it. One day I was telling him that his Ruger 10/22 would be great for rabbit hunting. He then said that the handgun would be even better. Then I had to explain to him how people ignorant about guns created laws that forbid us to use our High Standard for hunting rabbits. Things like these are very frustrating and I try to stay away from frustration if I can help it.
 
I've seen people take their M1A's to tac match before, just make sure you have crates of that surplus Norc 308 and get 10 round mags from Canadaammo (AIA magazines)
 
Yes, chop the barrel. 19" won't lose too much velocity from the .308. Load your own ammo, use 125-ish grain bullets loaded with a slow-ish powder like 4320, Reloader 15, or maybe even 4320. Just enough power to cycle the action reliably will easily make power factor (It'll be a pretty close equivalent to the 7.62 Soviet), and the brake is a pretty good one; but get it threaded 1/2"-28, the barrel is too small to tread 5/8".
 
Slamfyre said:
Yes. It is barrel heavy right now. Regardless of tacmatches, this rifle can use some weight loss, specially at the front. As for getting an AR, I try to stay away from restricteds. It is just too frustrating having to comply with our wonderful laws around restricteds. A few days ago I was thinking about arranging a quick trip to Texada Island with my VZ58 to grab one of those dog sized blacktails. An AR would not be allowed to do so.

I only have one restricted, a High Standard Supermatic Trophy 22LR handgun. And I only got it because my grandpa had one almost identical and my dad lost it. So when I stumbled upon it at Reliable Gun, I had to have it. It was a sentimental impulse buy. My 8 year old loves to shoot it. One day I was telling him that his Ruger 10/22 would be great for rabbit hunting. He then said that the handgun would be even better. Then I had to explain to him how people ignorant about guns created laws that forbid us to use our High Standard for hunting rabbits. Things like these are very frustrating and I try to stay away from frustration if I can help it.
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If you are going to spend $$ to modify your m305, you'd be better off getting a new 223 rifle and/or an AR-15 for range only fun. Considering you are a member at abby, and shoot matches at ranges. I don't really see the reason why you don't have an ar-15 haha. You can get an awesome ar for a fairly decent price, especially off of the EE.
 
bsand said:
If you are going to spend $$ to modify your m305, you'd be better off getting a new 223 rifle and/or an AR-15 for range only fun. Considering you are a member at abby, and shoot matches at ranges. I don't really see the reason why you don't have an ar-15 haha. You can get an awesome ar for a fairly decent price, especially off of the EE.
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When the Libertarian Party of Canada de-restricts it, I will buy me a Sig MCX.
 
Splatter said:
Yes, chop the barrel. 19" won't lose too much velocity from the .308. Load your own ammo, use 125-ish grain bullets loaded with a slow-ish powder like 4320, Reloader 15, or maybe even 4320. Just enough power to cycle the action reliably will easily make power factor (It'll be a pretty close equivalent to the 7.62 Soviet), and the brake is a pretty good one; but get it threaded 1/2"-28, the barrel is too small to tread 5/8".
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I have an m305 that i want to cut to 18.6 and thread it 1/2"-28 and get an adapter for 5/8" and put a vg6 gamma 762 brake on it. Eliminate all recoil. Thinking of doing it..... am i crazy?
 
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