M4 Survival Rifle .22 Hornet

UR2X3M4ME

UR2X3M4ME

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Super GunNutz
Rating - 100%
54   0   0
Location
Banana Republik of Kebekistan
(Not sure I am posting in the right forum - let me know.)

After hibernating some 40 years in a relative's basement, this WWII relic landed on my laps... unregistered (situation now rectified). It is surprisingly well preserved, probably due to a generous greasing before being forgotten.

There is very little information available on this Survival rifle and it appear to be somewhat rare. Perhaps there is a few knowledgeable Gun Nuts out there who could share Canadian history of this beast. Why do they seem so rare and why is there so little information on them - not typical of ex-service toys.

From what I gathered on the Net, the rifle was part of a survival kit in some US and Canadian WWII aircrafts, just in case their flights were to be abruptly interrupted by foreign objects chucked at them... The M4 Survival rifles were pulled out of service when these aircraft were retired at the end of the cold war. Is that correct?

I am lead to believe the RCAF ordered a few of these rifles because they were manufactured by Harrington & Richardson in Drummondville Quebec rather than Worchester Massachusetts - see the barrel markings.

Here is some additional data/observations:
- roughly manufactured, unaesthetic weld lines
- stamped "RIFLE SURVIVAL CAL. 22 M4"
- stamped "H&R Arms Co., Ltd. Drummondville, P.Q. Can." on receiver
- Stamped with serial no on barrel, receiver and bolt.
- Cal .22 Hornet; Bolt action; - 4 rounds removable H&R magazine
- Adjustable Lyman 55H peep sight & fixed front sight
- Collapsible wire stock
- Detachable 14" inch barrel (making it a "Restricted" in Kanuckistan)
- 4 lbs in weight

I took it to the range after a major cleanup and function check: fun to shoot and deadly accurate withing 50 yards. From the curiosity it generates I wonder if it is a collection piece I should treasure or just a fun toy to play with zombies.

Any inputs that could shed some light on this mysterious rifle would be greatly appreciated. Thoughts and comments are definitely welcome.

Cheers, (6 pics below)


L_Collapsed.jpg


R_Collapsed.jpg


M4-Survival.jpg


Right_CloseUp.jpg


HR_Drummond.jpg


Extended.jpg
 
"Detachable 14" inch barrel (making it a "Restricted" in Kanuckistan)"

I believe it's the fact it can be fired with the butt collapsed at a length under 26" that makes it restricted not the 14" barrel, which I have many guns sporting the same length or shorter that are non-restricted.

Very nice gun though, I wish it was non-restricted, I'd scoop one up for sure. Fun to reload the .22 Hornet too. Very versatile.
 
Thanks for the clarification Diananike. With the wire stock extended, the o/a length is 32 3/4". Should I modify it permanently extended (which I will never do :eek::eek: ), then it could be reclassified as "non restricted"?

I also read that in the US, 16 or 18" barrels had to be fitted to them to make them legal to own/trade by civilians.

Cal .22 Hornet is new to me and indeed, it is fun to play with. Fast lil buggers too!!!
 
It's kinda like a lot of our guns. ie. 1928/1921 Thompson SMG, worth $20,000 - $40,000 in the US. Here in Canada, lucky to get $900. The same can be said for any gun that falls within the definition of the US National Firearms Act, also known as, Class 3 firearms, with anyone over 21 years of age eligible to own and possess. They are not allowed to be imported into the US, and up here in Canada they are either restricted or prohibited, with a very small group of individuals who can possess.

I could retire a very rich individual IF I could take my guns to the US and sell them. However, that is a very big IF.

The prices are not comparable.
 
RCAF anything is collectible. Despite having lots of bases and aircraft, the RCAF never really had a corporate interest in small arms and shooting. If there is anyone who collects survival gear, this is what he probably needs.

The Drummondville markings are definately interesting. Off the top of my head that would be the fourth manufacturing centre for long guns in Canada (Long Branch for Lee Enfields, Cooeys in Lakefield and EAL in Toronto).
 
I had the exact rifle about 20 years ago and it was in the original military olive drab canvas bag. I bought it for $100 and it was like new and traded it a few years later against a WWII handgun which was later deemed prohib and generally worthless :confused:
 
wow, looks good for something that's been sitting around in a basement for 40 years. That's a collector's piece for sure and since it's still working, that's even more valuable so keep it in mint condition. As for using it to shoot something, it was meant to be used to hunt small animals for food in case of a plane crash.
 
UR2X3M4ME said:
Thanks for the clarification Diananike. With the wire stock extended, the o/a length is 32 3/4". Should I modify it permanently extended (which I will never do :eek::eek: ), then it could be reclassified as "non restricted"?

I also read that in the US, 16 or 18" barrels had to be fitted to them to make them legal to own/trade by civilians.

Cal .22 Hornet is new to me and indeed, it is fun to play with. Fast lil buggers too!!!
Click to expand...

It might be possible to permanently make it 26".
That would be really sweet, I suggest calling the CFC for their "opinion" and also directly asking a verifier himself. You should be able to reclassify (not unlike putting a longer barrel on a M1 carbine) but I could be wrong.
 
I have seen a few where the stocks had a small bar welded onto them so they would not retract below the 26" length. This will not make them unrestricted, since the rule about retractable stocks says something about "originally". The only recourse is to go with a barrel a couple inches longer. Only danger to that is you may not be allowed to switch it back to restricted once it has been reclassified to non-restricted.

The m4s are not that uncommon, and a couple seem to pop up on the EE every year. Value runs from around $350-00 for mismatched examples to $700 or $800 on nice matched examples like your.

The story I was told was that when Canada was going to make the F86 sabre, the drawings included the survival rifle which was part of the Sabre's on board equipment, so we had them made up here. Interesting thing on them was the C-broadarrow marking, since it's use had been cancelled by that time.
 
Thank you all for you comments. I reiterate and confirm the fact that I WILL NOT modify the M4 - it was just a question related to Resricted versus non restricted classification.. I guess I'm one of those old fashioned romantic who likes things in stock (original) condition.

Values provided somewhat match what I suspected. It is understood that being significantly bigger, the US market will fetch more for one. Serial nos do match, it functions perfectly, shoots accurately and .22 Hornets are fun little things to shoot. I guess I'm a lucky SOB :)
Talking about luck - I managed to get a copy of all drawings for it :cheers:

stencollector said:
The story I was told was that when Canada was going to make the F86 sabre, the drawings included the survival rifle which was part of the Sabre's on board equipment, so we had them made up here. Interesting thing on them was the C-broadarrow marking, since it's use had been cancelled by that time.
Click to expand...

I was told the same by a ret'd "zoomy". Without specifying which birds, he also said that US counterparts had ejection seats fitted with one. He said he heard that the Government demand for M4 was so pressing at the time that they were manufactured without serial nos. They were serialized later, which anyway was a requirement to be released for civilian sales. I find that hard to believe. Can anyone confirm that?

I am definitely not asking anyone to do the research for me but if anyone knows, it would be interesting to share how many M4 were manufactured by H&R out of the Drummondville Quebec plant. Cheers.
 
First I heard on the serial numbers. My money is that they would have been serialised on production. The military has always been pretty big on tracking it's weapons. There is certainly nothing about the examples that I have sen that would make me think they are anything but factory applied. Besides, without the serialising, the users would end up mixing bolts, barrels and receivers. Because the barrels could be removed by hand, mixing barrels and bolts could result in out of tolerance specs for headspacing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom