M9

[VincentVega]

I am able to buy a used M9 from a local store and I was wondering how far back the "slide issue" was with the M9. Is there a specific serial number range I should look for to avoid the M9s with the defective slide?

Also are there any specific steps I should do to ensure that the gun is in good working order?

 

[JeffMan]

The slide problems you have heard about happened with U.S. contract, and some civilian, pistols during the mid 80’s.

A U.S. factory making Beretta frames was established, as per the U.S defense contract, but had not been set up to make the slides yet. Thus, the slides for early M9 pistols were being made in Italy.

Some of these slides had failures causing the slide to crack and hit the operator, sometimes resulting in injury. Since then all Beretta 92&96 pistols have been redesigned with an additional “slide stop” – even if the frame cracks it will not strike the user.

The bad lot of slides was traced back to the factory in Italy and their use of inferior alloys. This was corrected; M9 and 92 model pistols were retrofitted. When production of the Beretta slides began in the U.S. the slides coming of the line were tested and proven safe.

In total there were 14 reported slide failures, all of them with the Italian manufactured slides (I think).

Chances are; even if your slide is marked; “Made in Italy” and is of 80’s vintage, it would have both the slide-stop and the proper alloying procedure to ensure safety.

If your Beretta slide is marked Accokeek, Maryland your definatly fine, if it’s marked “Made in Italy” your probably still fine.

Berettas are good guns but I would shy away from purchasing the Stainless (INOX). I have seen the Inox version fail on the range I use to work at. The failure was not catastrophic but resulted in the slide release lever being replaced (not sure how many times). That being said; I own an Inox Brigadier and love to look at it, and shoot it.

However, I will never release the slide using the “slide release” on my Inox but will grasp the slide, pull it back and release. This will likely save my slide release.

To ensure that the pistol is in good working order (IMHO):

1. Disassemble the pistol; examine the frame, slide, and locking block for cracking.
2. #### the pistol (unloaded of course) and then attempt to push the hammer down with a reasonable amount of force, Use the safety to de-#### the pistol.
3. Examine the pistol for frame to slide play.
4. With the hammer in the forward position, the slide locked back, and the safety off (fire position), insert a dummy or spent casing into the chamber and then release the slide; the hammer should not follow the slide down.
5. With the hammer down and the safety off (fire position) pull the trigger slightly, in double action, half way to the rear and then release (before the hammer would fall) the hammer should wrest at the half-#### position.
6. Reset the hammer in the forward position by thumbing it back and then use the safety to de-#### the pistol.
7. With the safety on (Safe mode), pull the trigger to the rear. The hammer should not move and the firing pin interrupter (just forward of the rear sight) should protrude.
8. This step is probably unnecessary but is rather fun. Drop a pencil down the barrel of the unloaded gun pointing directly at the ceiling; pull the trigger in double action and single action. In both instances the pencil should fly a meter or two into the air. (Don’t try this at home kiddies and have all proper safety equipment; protective glasses, helmet, bullet proof vest, gloves, ear muffs, condom, and jock strap. - on an approved range!

Jeff

 

[VincentVega]

Wow thank you very much for the detailed reply, that looks like it covers it! I saved it to my computer for future reference as the M9 is now gone
I am intent on getting my Beretta though and your reply will not go to waste when I check out the used ones : )

 

[Bartledan]

1. Disassemble the pistol; examine the frame, slide, and locking block for cracking.
2. #### the pistol (unloaded of course) and then attempt to push the hammer down with a reasonable amount of force, Use the safety to de-#### the pistol.
3. Examine the pistol for frame to slide play.

Quite irrelevant.

4. With the hammer in the forward position, the slide locked back,

physically impossible.

and the safety off (fire position), insert a dummy or spent casing into the chamber and then release the slide;

Never, ever, ever, ever do this. You run a mounting risk of breaking your extractor, and it proves nothing.

the hammer should not follow the slide down.

This should never happen, regardless. Why is this procedure more likely to cause the hammer to "follow down" than is simply shooting the gun, or closing the slide on an empty chamber?

 

[JeffMan]

Sorry. Some errors on my part. PICKY PICKY PICKY!

#4 should read:

4. With the hammer in the forward position, pull the slide back and lock it, with the safety off (fire position), insert a dummy or spent casing into the chamber and then release the slide; the hammer should not follow the slide down and the extractor should grip the case and extract when you pull the slide to the rear.

Bartledan: you are incorrect in saying: "Never, ever, ever, ever do this. You run a mounting risk of breaking your extractor, and it proves nothing."

In fact the Beretta 92FS was designed to load single shot in the event that the magazine is lost. You should "never, ever, ever, ever do this" with a 1911 but a Beretta is fine. So says the manual.

Maybe most of my function checks are irrelevant but they are fun, represent how a Beretta should function, and they are all I could think of.

I'm so sad that you gave my post two thumbs down.

Maybe you should find better use for you thumbs

You know I'm just kidding This type of banter should be fine among men when they share a hobby as engrossing as ours.

You'll have to admit though; the pencil thing is fun.

- Jeff

 

[IM_Lugger]

I wouldn't worry about the slide at all, there is no reason to be afraid of the Italian models. Out of a couple millions of 92's made the number of cracked slides is extremely small; you should be more afraid of getting hit by a truck when when you doing to pick it up...

Quote:
and the safety off (fire position), insert a dummy or spent casing into the chamber and then release the slide;

Never, ever, ever, ever do this. You run a mounting risk of breaking your extractor, and it proves nothing.

While I agree that it proved nothing, it will NOT brake the extractor; Beretta was specifically designed to be fired as a single shot incase there's something wrong with the magazine. It's not something you want to do with other guns though.

 

[VincentVega]

Jeff,

How big is the manual you have?
I looked at the online version and its 14 pages and I dont see anything about the manual chamber loading....although I did look at the 92FS so if it has a different extractor on it you may not be able to load it manually right?

You could pretty much do the same thing by loading it using the Mag if youve got a snap cap instead of a spent casing right?

Why would field stripping the pistol be a waste of time?
It would show any excessive wear on the frame and the slide wouldnt it?

 

[IM_Lugger]

ALL 92's/M9 can be loaded through the chamber - and it does say that in the manual...at least it does in mine.

You could pretty much do the same thing by loading it using the Mag if youve got a snap cap instead of a spent casing right?

not sure I understand what you're asking, it doesn't matter if it's a snapcap or ammo. But chamber loading makes sense only if you're loading one round or if you dont have a (working) magazine. You can also load eleventh round this way but I would recommend easing in the slide (but make sure it going into battery).

I would definitely field strip a 92 If I were buying a used one; the wear on the frame rails would give me an idea of how much use the have seen. It only takes a second or two anyways.

 

[JeffMan]

IM_Lugger has taken the words right out of my mouth. - Kudos

My manual(s) say that chamber loading is fine and that the gun is designed for this specifically in the instance that the operator no longer has a functioning magazine. - Don’t try it with other guns though (not sure about SIG. Anyone Know?)

The Beretta 92 is a fine pistol and can be had relatively cheaply compared to some other "wonder 9 s".

If you’re purchasing a used Beretta you should disassemble it and take a look, like IM_Lugger said; it only takes a second. Also, it should function as I have described. I've not heard of one specific weak point /failure with the 92fs besides those that afflict some Inox versions (all stainless including trigger, hammer, guide rod, etc.)

I have seen a Beretta break a trigger return spring before, resulting in the operator having to push the trigger forward to reset. I've also heard of this happening to other 92 models with high round counts. To address this issue, Beretta has designed the trigger return spring so that it can be reversed and used as designed (automatically resetting) until a replacement part can be obtained. To my knowledge most all contemporary model 92fs pistols will have this reversible trigger spring/ “field expedient” to get a “broken” 92 back up and in the fight. - In our case (thankfully); target practice

The 92 was designed as a combat pistol and has a solid reputation as such. Though some would question the combat efficiency of the 9mm round, it effectively makes a hole in any paper target and not in your wallet.

It is a great, solid, gun and that’s why it was my first pistol.

I also like Sig pistols but have not acquired one yet.

As I advice all new 92FS owners; it is compulsary to watch Lethal Weapon, and Die Hard upon receiving your new pistol.

- Jeff

 

[VincentVega]

I understand that you can load a round manually into the 92 (according to what you guys are saying is in the manual) but if for what ever reason you are skittish about doing so you could just mag load the round. You would need to use a snap cap though because a spent round would not have the actual bullet and wouldnt feed properly right? Having never loaded a spent round into a gun Im just assuming and I guess it doesnt really matter. Anyway I appreciate the advice and any other advice that may follow if anything else should be checked.

Edit
I just realized this is my hundreth post ....yay me!

 

[IM_Lugger]

Jeff I just noticed that you addresed the extractor issue before I did, didn’t see it before

About the Inox models I honestly don’t think they are inferior to Bruniton in any way. In fact I've heard that Inox slides are more durable.

Berettas are good guns but I would shy away from purchasing the Stainless (INOX). I have seen the Inox version fail on the range I use to work at. The failure was not catastrophic but resulted in the slide release lever being replaced (not sure how many times).

I don’t think the durability of the slide release is at all effected by the slide material/ finish.

Btw any gun will eventually brake a trigger spring…

 

[VincentVega]

As an aside to watching Leathal Weapon, it would be good advice to watch it with an unloaded pistol and while not uder any kind of intoxication.....pencils should be ok though...definatly no hollow points should be hanging around : )