Magazine capacity, and Bear defense -BCWF responds.

[Calum]

Last weekend I was taking the CORE hunting course, and the topic of Magazine capacity came up, and Bear defense...this led me to asking the head of the Firearms section over at the BCWF office via E-mail some questions, and here is the awesome response I got. (in a later e-mail he gave permission to post this)

A -brief- summery of my long winded questions...
First off I asked about having to worry about Magazine capacity issues in the shotgun while using it to defend myself vs Bear if out bow hunting etc. Do I leave the silly Magazine plug in or not even though I'm not hunting ducks or Migratory birds etc.

And I asked about the legality of my 10 round capacity Lee Enfield in hunting, and also wondered about the 8 round Garands...as in the Manual things are vague, and only say 5 rounds of center fire only.

Also I mentioned various experiences I have had while out target shooting in the woods, and what some hunters I know have experienced with regards to Bears homing in on the sound of Gunshot looking to "mug" the hunter.

Hello ###, one the problems in answering some of your questions is that they are speculative and your examiner is correct in that the actions taken by a CO would likely depend on their own interpretation of the law and the events.

Here is my view:

1. It is legal to have a fully loaded unplugged shotgun for the purpose
of defence. No plug is required and as long as the weapon is legal there is
no maximum to the number of shells that can be used. It is necessary to be
able to demonstrate that you needed the shotgun for defence purposes. If
you are to walk out of the bush with grouse or ducks that might be brought
into question!

2. It is true that some bears have become conditioned to the sound of
gunfire indicating a meal is about to be served! This is happening with
Grizzly Bears in the Kootenays during the Elk season and it doesn't surprise
me to hear it happening with the very adaptable black bear. I'm not able to
tell you when you feel your life is threatened but it has to be reasonable,
for example if the two bears were shot while 75 yards away because you felt
threatened, I would think that a CO would charge you. Your life, property
or livestock need to be in immediate danger. It would be expected that if
you had another way of avoiding the situation without dealing with it
yourself that you contact the CO or RCMP for direction e.g. Bear on your
deck in your garbage, go inside and phone someone. Cougar attacking your
dog, shoot it.

3. 5 round capacity is under review of the Ministry and there will be
further clarification in an updated CORE manual. This has been taken from
the Federal laws and generally applies to semi-automatic rifles, there is
also the stipulation of a maximum 3 shells in a shotgun (total including a
chambered round) for hunting purposes. I have questioned the reasoning
behind this when dealing with hunting big game (with a shotgun) and
clarification will hopefully be coming forward soon. I will in turn update
the CORE information.

Hope that helps

Paul Adams
Program Manager Hunter Safety and CORE
BCWF

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[Foxer]

Very interesting.

I talked to the ministry about this about a year ago i think. First off - TWO co's i spoke to thought the rules ALREADY only applied to waterfowl/geese, and that you could hunt deer with as many rounds in as you liked. I found out they were wrong with regards to shot like buckshot and the like - but it shows that already the co's don't really think it's important for deer. (still the law tho)

Secondly, i asked about slug guns and spoke to the ministry directly. The person i spoke to said that a centerfire slug gun is a rifle, even tho it's a 'shotgun'. now - i don't know how much i'd trust that and i'd like to see it in writing before i went into the feild, but the ministry probably doesn't see a problem with such changes if they're already making a distinction between duck hunting and big game hunting.

 

[Fox]

I wish the Ontario Ministry would look into the 3 shot in a shotgun rule for big game as well, we don't have a large problem with dangerous game but the hunting round restrictions are a little off.

 

[Zokakoka]

An interesting read, Surprised not many more comments have been given on this thread!

What if you're camping out in the bush and bear is not so much a problem as coyotes! Can you also have your shotgun fully loaded with buckshots for self defense purposes. I don't see why not?

 

[brybenn]

I hunt bear with a slug gun and would love to have 5 shells like my buddies can with there rifles as I think a rifled slug barrel makes it a rifle but the chief firearms officers rcmp and ministry think otherwise

 

[Zokakoka]

But what about for self defence when your just at camp and at night, Are you legally allowed to have a shotgun fully loaded with no plugs to keep you safe? I would think that's very reasonable.

 

[Gatehouse]

BC changed the regs couple of years ago to remove the 2+1 requirement for hunting if the shotgun is loaded with slugs, not shot. Shotguns used for defense only can be loaded with as many rounds as you like and may include shot.