Magnum primers, 90gr bullets and no powder? Cowboy action light loads?
- Thread starter offgrid
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vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
You don't mention the gun or cartridge so specific information might be tough to give.
I really doubt that you can reliably get any lead or jacketed bullets to leave the barrel with only a primer. If you go to wax or plastic or a foam earplug there are possible routes.
Fast draw competition use the first 2 with modified cases that take shotgun primers. I know from experience that earplugs and wax can be launched from a revolver with a normal primer but the flash hole has to be enlarged or they back out and lockup the cylinder.
Accuracy we were striving for was a 2 foot square at 10 feet but I imagine better can be had with the plastic or maybe the wax slugs. Testing required.
I really doubt that you can reliably get any lead or jacketed bullets to leave the barrel with only a primer. If you go to wax or plastic or a foam earplug there are possible routes.
Fast draw competition use the first 2 with modified cases that take shotgun primers. I know from experience that earplugs and wax can be launched from a revolver with a normal primer but the flash hole has to be enlarged or they back out and lockup the cylinder.
Accuracy we were striving for was a 2 foot square at 10 feet but I imagine better can be had with the plastic or maybe the wax slugs. Testing required.
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
Yup...takes powder to make the "ding". And when trying to manuf. very light Cowboy ammo for a .38 sp the lighter the bullet the slightly MORE powder you will need for consistent powder ignition. The interior case space increases from a i58 gr down to a 130 or 110 gr. I have used charges with 158 gr bullets that give very inconsistent powder burn with the smaller bullets ( both SR7625 & Titegroup ).
offgrid: Some good responses, so far. Loading light bullets for CAS competition takes a bit more finesse, than with heavier ones. As Fingers284 rightly pointed out, ignition can be erratic, when loading too-light powder charges. But, they can be loaded to deliver good result. I guess the first question to ask is what weight bullet do you intend to load? That will give the folks here a good idea of what powders should work.
As a matter of interest, I regularly run 105 grain bullets in CAS competition(revolvers, only). Finding the right powder/load combination wasn't difficult....just took a bit of experimentation.
As a matter of interest, I regularly run 105 grain bullets in CAS competition(revolvers, only). Finding the right powder/load combination wasn't difficult....just took a bit of experimentation.
billbmcleod
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Back very close to Bruce County
It is kind of an aside but I have MT rifle cases for all calibers that hunt in our moose group. I have drilled the flash holes a bit and bring some magnum primers and a de-priming tool similar to the old LEE Loader tools. I made a holder/base to re-prime the cases again similar to the old Lee Loader. I made this up after someone broke off a pull through one year in camp and we had to dismantle a lot of cartridges to get that out just using the primer but it worked. I do have a lathe so that helps.
CAS loading; I use Magnum primers to help spark the small powder charges. Use heaver bullets 125 or DRG 130 grain. Give the spotters a break you get less called misses if the bullet make a ding and moves the target a bit. Aspirin loads will not win the match for you.
Aspirin load- watch bullet float down range, and it arc s into target 10 yards away, hits with no sound.
Aspirin load- watch bullet float down range, and it arc s into target 10 yards away, hits with no sound.
VICIOUS: Quite true. I have been to matches where you could actually see the bullet travel to the plate. Also considerable delay between report and impact. Which was usually a dull "splat"...rather than a hearty "DING". A real pain in the butt, when you're spotting.
That's why I load all my competition rounds to an average muzzle velocity around 800 fps. No question, when one of these bullets hits the plates....even the light ones. Also makes it easier to switch from one bullet weight to another, if heavy knockdown plates are encountered. My "standard" bullet, being 125 grains. Used in both revolvers and rifles.
My revolver sights are regulated to print 125 grain bullets to point-of-aim, at 10 metres. 105 grainers print within about an inch. So essentially the same point of impact. Took a bit of experimentation and chronograph testing to achieve this balance....but made it work. The main advantage of the lighter bullet being less muzzle jump and quicker recovery between shots. An advantage in CAS, where a lot of emphasis is put upon speed....as well as precision. But, still able to go to a heavier bullet without making any sighting adjustments, when needed.
That's why I load all my competition rounds to an average muzzle velocity around 800 fps. No question, when one of these bullets hits the plates....even the light ones. Also makes it easier to switch from one bullet weight to another, if heavy knockdown plates are encountered. My "standard" bullet, being 125 grains. Used in both revolvers and rifles.
My revolver sights are regulated to print 125 grain bullets to point-of-aim, at 10 metres. 105 grainers print within about an inch. So essentially the same point of impact. Took a bit of experimentation and chronograph testing to achieve this balance....but made it work. The main advantage of the lighter bullet being less muzzle jump and quicker recovery between shots. An advantage in CAS, where a lot of emphasis is put upon speed....as well as precision. But, still able to go to a heavier bullet without making any sighting adjustments, when needed.
Minimum SASS Power Factor is 60. When I was building my wife's loads I noticed that when I went below a PF of 80, I started to get erratic accuracy. So her pistols cartridges have a PF of 86. One thing to keep in mind is that her 86 PF Pistol loads rarely knock down reactive steel targets!
Garand: Power Factor was one of my main considerations too, when determining which bullet/powder combinations would deliver best results for competitive loads. My "standard" 125 gr. bullet load comes in at exactly PF 100. With 105 gr. load at PF 84. So, no concerns, about meeting SASS Power Factor minimums. My little 105 grain "squirts" won't tip some heavy knockdown targets, either. Though very pleasant to shoot, otherwise. So it's nice to know the 125 grain bullet load can get the job done.
For those folks wondering how to calculate Power Factor for CAS competition, the formula is pretty simple: Weight of bullet in grains. Multiply by bullet velocity in feet-per-second. Divide this result by 1000.
edit: I ran into problems when running loads under PF 80, too. Across several bullet weights. Erratic ignition and accuracy....similar to what you observed.
Even with fast powders, like Titegroup. Trail Boss, Clays and other powders around that burn rate. As you likely already know, it's amazing what an extra couple of tenths of a grain of powder can do, to improve load performance.
For those folks wondering how to calculate Power Factor for CAS competition, the formula is pretty simple: Weight of bullet in grains. Multiply by bullet velocity in feet-per-second. Divide this result by 1000.
edit: I ran into problems when running loads under PF 80, too. Across several bullet weights. Erratic ignition and accuracy....similar to what you observed.
Even with fast powders, like Titegroup. Trail Boss, Clays and other powders around that burn rate. As you likely already know, it's amazing what an extra couple of tenths of a grain of powder can do, to improve load performance.
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Currently I'm loading 2 separate loads in .38 spl for my wife. One is a 158 grain bullet pushed by 3.2 grains of Hercules Infallible (manufactured between 1898 to 1948) for her pistols and second load with a big red ink marker across the base is the same 158 grain bullet pushed by 3.9 grains of Hercules Infallible for her rifles. The rifle load will take the plates off a Texas star at 25 yards. I don't doubt that I'm probably the last user of this propellent in Canada if not North America.
I vaguely remember reading somewhere, some time long (maybe not so long) ago, that Infallible had a name change. What the new name is escapes me, and I have no idea if it accompanied a re-formulation.
Also, this just goes to show you how long smokeless powder will keep when stored under appropriate conditions.
I have had "squibs" push a bullet an inch or so down the bore, but the primer was not magnum, and the force of the primer was pushing a "heavy" bullet and a load of powder, so I would surmise that no powder, a light bullet and a magnum primer would push it further, perhaps the 4-5" required in a revolver barrel. I have launched round balls with primer only, so that's a better way to go than a cylindrical bullet. In my 38 Special the round ball weighed about 65 grs. Success with primer only was due to its very light weight and its shape, as its bearing surface (hence friction) was very small. Although it left the barrel, and could just penetrate 1/4" plywood at 5 ft (I did it in the basement) that's not that much power (more than airsoft, less that pellet gun!). At CAS ranges and conditions, its power and probably accuracy would likely be insufficient.
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