Making a 7.62x25 rifle?

wasa

wasa

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
168   0   0
Location
SSW Ontario
Buddy and I were chatting recently. We both have Tokarev pistols and a bunch of 7.62x25 ammo. With the popularity of Pistol Caliber Carbines we discussed "what would it take to get a PCC in 7.62x25"? I brought up the "Spanish Destroyer Carbine", a bolt-action rifle in 9mm Largo (or sometimes in 9mm Luger) and wondered about something similar in 7.62x25 that would maybe take Tokarev magazines.

I assume it would be fairly costly to get one (or 2) custom made. I figure the barrel, being 30 caliber, should be straight forward. Tokarev magazines. Bolt action? Semi-auto?

What would a gunsmith start with? A 9mm PCC would need new barrel, new action, new magazines.....

An internet search found a custom bolt rifle (ht tps://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2020/09/sunday-gunday-home-built-7-62x25-tokarev-custom-rifle/ - remove space) I also found a "WISE LITE STERLING SPORTER III SA CARBINE" and a "WISE LITE PPSH41" on USA websites - nothing obvious in Canada (and it appears that Wise Lite Arms is gone? Their website is kaput)

If I were rich and wanted to burn money, what type of cost would I be looking at for a custom 7.62x25 rifle? $1000? $5000? My gut feeling is between these values, assuming I could find someone willing to take on the project.

Thoughts?

PS I'm not rich... this is more of a "if I won the lottery...."
 
TNW made semi auto recievers for PPSH41 parts kits, unfortunately by the time they got approved for sale here all the parts kits had dried up and completed guns were all sold.

I've seen a few that have been privately imported after the fact around but not more than a handful.

As for the destroyer carbines theres a Euro guy that converted one to x25 and tok mags so it is possible but iirc it didnt cycle too reliably ill update if I find the video.

As for cost of conversion its probably going to be high, theres also not many good base rifles to start with aside from the aforementioned carbine.

Edit: Found the article it was actually an M1 carbine and .357 desert eagle magazines.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/11/28/7-62x25-tokarev-m1-carbine-another-frankensteinian-creation-herbert-mad-gunsmith-werle/
 
If you do a search you will see this topic has been beaten to death. Everyone wants a cheap x25 PCC, or even bolt action, but the costs to make one just don't line up with what people are willing to spend.

Plus x25 ammo isn't nearly as cheap and plentiful as it was 10 years ago, further reducing the desire. Its pretty much on par with 9mm prices at this point so the economics are no longer there.


I wonder if anyone is making a chamber adapter for 30cal rifles? IIRC there were 7.62x54r adapters at one point? Could be fun to shoot x25 from a 308 or 30-06 bolt action just for ####s and giggles if you can get an adapter for cheap enough...
 
I want a x25 rifle for the utility, cost was never much of a concern as long as quality was there. Still, it's not really a thing unless you build from scratch or make silly compromises.
 
I suspect one of the little Brno .222 rifles could be rebarreled, and altered to accept a Tokarev magazine.
 
tiriaq said:
I suspect one of the little Brno .222 rifles could be rebarreled, and altered to accept a Tokarev magazine.
Click to expand...

Anyone you'd recommend to do the work?? With a spacer in the magwell and setting the barrel back a bit I don't see why it couldn't work pretty well.
 
Another possibility would be a Stevens/Savage 830/340 in .222. Bolt face would need to be opened. Barrel nut/no shoulder might make the job easier.
Like the Brno, a fairly small barrel shank would work. A .303/7.62/7.65 rifle barrel could be adapted.

Who to do the work? Most any gunsmith could install the barrel - assuming a reamer is available. Opening a .222 bolt face should be no big deal. Adapting the thing to take a magazine could be very time consuming. Many gunsmiths wouldn't want to touch it.
 
tiriaq said:
Another possibility would be a Stevens/Savage 830/340 in .222. Bolt face would need to be opened. Barrel nut/no shoulder might make the job easier.
Like the Brno, a fairly small barrel shank would work. A .303/7.62/7.65 rifle barrel could be adapted.

Who to do the work? Most any gunsmith could install the barrel - assuming a reamer is available. Opening a .222 bolt face should be no big deal. Adapting the thing to take a magazine could be very time consuming. Many gunsmiths wouldn't want to touch it.
Click to expand...

This I suspect is the biggest issue. Unless someone is paying upfront and has ZERO expectations other than the smith will ATTEMPT to get it working (with the understanding that after X number of hours, the smith will be giving up regardless of how far along he has made it), I don't think you'll find many people willing to take this on.
 
Last edited:
I can do the mag fitting myself. I realize the work isn't anything special but I don't know any Smith's and I don't have tools or machines for the rest unfortunately.
 
LarryG said:
how about starting with a cz527 in 7.62x39?
set the barrel back, re-chamber and modify the mag and bolt face.
Click to expand...

I wonder how the accuracy would be. The 7.62x39 being a 0.311" or 0.312" projectile vs the 7.62x25 projectile of 0.308". I'd guess up to 50 yards would be fine.

Read online that you can make 7.62x25 brass from 223 brass. Would this mean could start from a 223 or 5.56 rifle, maybe single shot (ha ha), rebarrel or rebore, and then rechamber?

The TNW PPSH41 is one I'm not familiar with - time to go down another rabbit hole!
 
7.62x25 can be made from .223 brass - but it is undersized toward the head. Depending on the rifle, a 7.62x25 case may fit a .222 bolt face.
I would not be surprised if shortened and FL 7.62 sized .223 brass had to be neck reamed.

The similar case diameters are a reason I suggested .222 rifles for conversion.

A single shot Lee Enfield would be easy. Barrel set back and rechambered, extractor modified.

As far as bore dimensions go, I very much suspect that the Soviets used the same tooling to produce 7.62x25 and 7.62x54R barrel bores.
 
Manson can supply a 7.62x25 solid pilot reamer for US$145. That is going to scare C$225 by the time you have it.
Assume a scavenged or low cost barrel. $100-$150 to thread and chamber? $50 to adjust the bolt face counterbore? Now you have some $400 in modifications into a single shot. Of course, the reamer could be sold. What did the rifle cost?
 
tiriaq said:
7.62x25 can be made from .223 brass - but it is undersized toward the head. Depending on the rifle, a 7.62x25 case may fit a .222 bolt face.
I would not be surprised if shortened and FL 7.62 sized .223 brass had to be neck reamed.

The similar case diameters are a reason I suggested .222 rifles for conversion.

A single shot Lee Enfield would be easy. Barrel set back and rechambered, extractor modified.

As far as bore dimensions go, I very much suspect that the Soviets used the same tooling to produce 7.62x25 and 7.62x54R barrel bores.
Click to expand...

Cases I made had to have the necks thinned except for Winchester brass. The pistol barrels where made on the same tooling. They actually took rejected rifle barrels and reworked them into pistol barrels. The reject area was garbaged.My 7.62x25 barrel measures 0.310. My Mosins vary from 0.310 to 0.313 so possible they may have use the tighter barrels.
Just a thought. Could a 223 rifle with a 30 barrel added be used ?
I can see the possibility of using a 223 bolt face and receiver with a 30 barrel
 
FWIW across the 7 types of x25 ammo I have, both commercial and surplus, none are larger than .3085". I have never measured one at all over that unless I managed to forget. I have never slugged any of my tokarevs but accuracy is exceptional so I don't see any issue with a .308 barrel.
 
Some of the fellows around here converted sporter Enfield No4s to 7.62TT . There are some good videos on youtube about this also. how to do the ejector and such.
 
You can find information on the 'net about a trigger guard/magazine housing made for a Lee Enfield by laminating up pieces of aluminum plate.
 
A good CGN'r sent me an adapter cartridge that I can shoot 7.62x25 in a rifle chambered for 7.62x54r. I know that's not what the OP has in mind, but it works.
 
OP, if you can find one of the surplus "Spanish Destroyer" rifles that's been bubbaed, they make a great platform to build a 7.62x25 bolt rifle on.

They aren't super strong or super smooth in function, but they're more than adequate for this cartridge.

The bolt face is just about perfect and the extractor is just fine, as well as providing controlled round feed.

Many of these rifles came in with pooched bores and are easily re-barreled.

It may be your cheapest option.

I did one for my grandson about five+ years ago. It worked quite well. The biggest issue I had was that the surplus cartridges wouldn't quite fit into the Destroyer magazine.

I modified the Mag well to accept Tokarev pistol magazines, which was easier than I thought it would be and any surplus or commercial rounds I found worked well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom