Making a bullet sizer

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SomebodyTookMyName

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Hey all,

Not sure if this is the best place to post it or not- I'm trying to get a setup to size .45 caliber rifle bullets to shoot in a muzzleloader build of mine. I'm running jacketed bullets with no sabots (bullet-to-bore), so sizing is pretty critical, and I can't find any premade sizing dies that are the right diameter.

Has anyone here made a push-through bullet sizing die for themselves? I've looked at the swing-lock design but it's wildly expensive...
 
I have never made one, but have considered it. From my own attempts on my lathe to bore out inside diameters with boring bar, I would think you would have to eventually ream, or possibly even lap the inside bore to final finish? Then turn a punch to fit in the ram - I suspect that the final finish on ram is less critical than inside that die? Was thinking to cheat and just start with some 7/8" x 14 tpi bolts? Case hardening or heat treating would be "new country" for me so no idea if that is also required? If you have a Lee push through resizing die, could "reverse engineer" - do not know how much bearing surface required for re-sizing? I have used the Lee push through for a few years without incident on cast bullets, but no idea how much of a "step down" would be possible for a jacketed bullet?
 
Just going from muzzle loading, there is / was the Minie design - a cavity in rear that would "bump up" to seal within bore. Apparently, there is much evidence that removing the jacket base can result in core leaving the muzzle, but jacket staying within the bore, so don't want to do that, but maybe a dome shaped top to the punch might help create a structure that would "bump up" under pressure of the shot - pretty certain that was an option for the base punches on the STAR lube-sizer that I had for a while - but, again, was all based on a cast lead bullet - not a jacketed one. Also, have read it was a "thing" to use a wad - lubed felt wad, waxed cardboard, etc. - above the powder, underneath the bullet base - idea was that the wad acted as a "seal" to the gas pressures. I have never tried that, except in standard shotgun one piece "wad and shot cups".
 
SomebodyTookMyName said:
Hey all,

Not sure if this is the best place to post it or not- I'm trying to get a setup to size .45 caliber rifle bullets to shoot in a muzzleloader build of mine. I'm running jacketed bullets with no sabots (bullet-to-bore), so sizing is pretty critical, and I can't find any premade sizing dies that are the right diameter.

Has anyone here made a push-through bullet sizing die for themselves? I've looked at the swing-lock design but it's wildly expensive...
Click to expand...

If you have a reloading press the Lee push through sizing dies are affordable and when a custom size is required most people ream the closest smallest size out with a whip and sand paper in progressing finer grit until polished at the size required. If that's not practical Lee also does custom ordered ones.
 
Potashminer said:
I have never made one, but have considered it. From my own attempts on my lathe to bore out inside diameters with boring bar, I would think you would have to eventually ream, or possibly even lap the inside bore to final finish? Then turn a punch to fit in the ram - I suspect that the final finish on ram is less critical than inside that die? Was thinking to cheat and just start with some 7/8" x 14 tpi bolts? Case hardening or heat treating would be "new country" for me so no idea if that is also required? If you have a Lee push through resizing die, could "reverse engineer" - do not know how much bearing surface required for re-sizing? I have used the Lee push through for a few years without incident on cast bullets, but no idea how much of a "step down" would be possible for a jacketed bullet?
Click to expand...

That was basically what I was thinking- starting with a blank 7/8-14 bolt or old die body and ream it to within .001" of the necessary diameter, then polish/lap it to the final diameter. I have some Lee Lubrisizer dies around, which look to be very simple indeed...

My case is a bit unique because I'm using a smokeless muzzleloader, but it works in my favour, as the pressures generated are sufficient to obturate a bullet into the rifling even if it's one or two thou undersized, and is a fairly well accepted fact in the smokeless ML community. There's no real need for a Minie design or hollow bases for a smokeless setup.
 
MuthaFunk said:
If you have a reloading press the Lee push through sizing dies are affordable and when a custom size is required most people ream the closest smallest size out with a whip and sand paper in progressing finer grit until polished at the size required. If that's not practical Lee also does custom ordered ones.
Click to expand...

Lol you just confirmed my idea then! The only problem is that I need to size to around .4505, and Lee doesn't make anything smaller than a straight .4510. Might be worth a shot regardless, if I could actually find a .451" sizer anywhere haha
 
Jacketed bullet are usually .451-.452
Sizing die are avail up from .451 to .460...any bigger - you can hone it to .461 or .462 but not much more to keep concentricity.
That more than enough for any .45 bullet

Sizing dies are avail. My guess all you need is .454
 
I have made 3 or 4 homemade sizers to fit a 450 Lyman sizer press. They were all usable but the last couple I cut were from a ground bar stock that, while still being machineable with a Taiwanese hobby lathe, was of an unknown alloy that was noticeably better steel than just mild steel bar. The mild steel sizer works very satisfactorily but just didn't polish up as well as the better steel.

I first drilled the sizer undersized with ordinary twist drill and then single-point cutter bored the hole to within a couple thou of finished dia. ( I also had to make the super small boring bar myself as I didn't have any of the expensive store-bought ones). now I wrapped a steel dowel cut to size with emory cloth and give her a few revolutions to just start the final size polish...do not over-do this stage or the next, if you do you will be over-dia and have to start over. The final polish is done with Crocus Cloth over the same dowel.

I got extremely lucky with all that I've made, haven't had a do-over yet. One sizer I made is .0005 over target dia but I can live with that. I use these sizers with cast bullets of varying hardness as well as many Powder Coated slugs but cant feature using them with jacketed bullets...this brings up a question I have;

How will you be seating these jacketed slugs into the lands/grooves without a hydraulic press of some kind...from my experience muzzleloader slugs are made of pure lead for a reason, so they can engrave the rifling when being seated home??? Without a hydraulic press I can only visualize them being hammered down the bore with a steel rod...would be no recognizable bullet nose after this procedure that I can see....enlighten me!!!
 
fingers284 said:
I have made 3 or 4 homemade sizers to fit a 450 Lyman sizer press. They were all usable but the last couple I cut were from a ground bar stock that, while still being machineable with a Taiwanese hobby lathe, was of an unknown alloy that was noticeably better steel than just mild steel bar. The mild steel sizer works very satisfactorily but just didn't polish up as well as the better steel.

I first drilled the sizer undersized with ordinary twist drill and then single-point cutter bored the hole to within a couple thou of finished dia. ( I also had to make the super small boring bar myself as I didn't have any of the expensive store-bought ones). now I wrapped a steel dowel cut to size with emory cloth and give her a few revolutions to just start the final size polish...do not over-do this stage or the next, if you do you will be over-dia and have to start over. The final polish is done with Crocus Cloth over the same dowel.

I got extremely lucky with all that I've made, haven't had a do-over yet. One sizer I made is .0005 over target dia but I can live with that. I use these sizers with cast bullets of varying hardness as well as many Powder Coated slugs but cant feature using them with jacketed bullets...this brings up a question I have;

How will you be seating these jacketed slugs into the lands/grooves without a hydraulic press of some kind...from my experience muzzleloader slugs are made of pure lead for a reason, so they can engrave the rifling when being seated home??? Without a hydraulic press I can only visualize them being hammered down the bore with a steel rod...would be no recognizable bullet nose after this procedure that I can see....enlighten me!!!
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for the input- that's awesome, I think I'll give it a shot!

Surprisingly, with a jacketed bullet sized to .001"-.002" over land diameter (NOT bore diameter lol), once you get it started into the rifling, fully seating it down the bore only takes 30-40lb of ramrod pressure. A specifically shaped ramrod tip is used to avoid tip damage. Once the powder charge ignites, the base of the bullet obturates into the rifling and seals nicely.

These are the bullets I'm shooting- https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/arrowhead-x-series-bullets/
 
I guess I would have same question as Post #8 - for some reason, I got "muzzle loader" associated with "black powder", then somehow transitioned to black powder case rifles - like a Sharps. For a "muzzle loader", projectile has to get down bore from muzzle to the powder charge - softer lead or sabot usually do that - not certain at all how that can be done with a jacketed bullet sized to fit the lands diameter? Sized to fit the bore diameter will go down there, but needs some way to "fill out" to land diameter to engrave on rifling?
 
I am really messing up my "terms" this morning! "Lands" diameter, I think is the distance between the top of the riflings, so it is same as "bore" diameter - the hole initially reamed through the barrel blank. "Groove" diameter is the distance from bottom of grooves to each other. So, "lands" or "bore" are nominally .300" in a 30-06; "groove" diameter is nominally .308". If OP is sizing .001" or .002" over "lands" diameter, then is engraving .0005" or .001" of rifling into the bullet on it's loading trip down the bore.
 
Take a look at insert style Drill Bushings.

You can get them in assorted materials, styles, and lengths, and in sizes as you wish, usually to a couple or three tenth of a thou, and they are cheap for the work they prevent.

Making a die body to hold the bushing is pretty basic by comparison.
 
SomebodyTookMyName said:
Hey all,

Not sure if this is the best place to post it or not- I'm trying to get a setup to size .45 caliber rifle bullets to shoot in a muzzleloader build of mine. I'm running jacketed bullets with no sabots (bullet-to-bore), so sizing is pretty critical, and I can't find any premade sizing dies that are the right diameter.

Has anyone here made a push-through bullet sizing die for themselves? I've looked at the swing-lock design but it's wildly expensive...
Click to expand...

I made my own swing lock style, but I was using it to size .458 bullets to a .458 bore, rifling included. The whole point of it’s design is to allow adjustment. In this case the sizer is actually made from a piece of your barrel which of course needs to be adjustable to compensate for spring back.
 
If you don't have an adjustable sizing die like double gun made or the one swinglock sells you will need multiple fixed style dies depending on the bullets you plan on using, all bullets DO NOT size the same. As mentioned spingback can and will occur.
I have had some sizing dies made from " tool jig & die makers" just google it and find one that is close to you, they will make it to your exact spec.s and even harden the die. But you will still need to know what size die you need to allow for springback and still have a good enough fit for ignition with smokeless and still have ease in loading.
What I have done in some cases is have a die that sizes a bullet a little under sized to allow for loading (from the muzzle ) and knurled the bullet to produce a tighter fit to allow ignition of smokeless loads. Bare in mind these are for land riders.
In any case these sabotless loads might require either a fibre or wool wad to assist in sealing.
 
smokeeter said:
If you don't have an adjustable sizing die like double gun made or the one swinglock sells you will need multiple fixed style dies depending on the bullets you plan on using, all bullets DO NOT size the same. As mentioned spingback can and will occur.
I have had some sizing dies made from " tool jig & die makers" just google it and find one that is close to you, they will make it to your exact spec.s and even harden the die. But you will still need to know what size die you need to allow for springback and still have a good enough fit for ignition with smokeless and still have ease in loading.
What I have done in some cases is have a die that sizes a bullet a little under sized to allow for loading (from the muzzle ) and knurled the bullet to produce a tighter fit to allow ignition of smokeless loads. Bare in mind these are for land riders.
In any case these sabotless loads might require either a fibre or wool wad to assist in sealing.
Click to expand...

Understood smokeeter- I managed to find some die blanks here, so I'm going to try my hand at making a fixed sizer and see how it goes. How did you knurl your bullets? I found some guys using knurling tools, and others reference just using files to do it instead.
 
easy to make, when you rough out the body make a few because you will bore to close size then finish with a wooden dowel with fine emery cloth, cut a slot in the dowel and wrap the cloth around starting in the slot, when you are within a though finish with lapping, I use a wooden dowel, turn it to the fit of the polished bore and roll it in lapping compound, makes the dowel into a great lapping stone, now polish to a fine finish, press a few lead slugs thro and measure, continue to lap until its the right size.
 
SomebodyTookMyName said:
Understood smokeeter- I managed to find some die blanks here, so I'm going to try my hand at making a fixed sizer and see how it goes. How did you knurl your bullets? I found some guys using knurling tools, and others reference just using files to do it instead.
Click to expand...


I primarily use files, course and fine depending on how much larger the bullet needs to be. I've heard some guys say there is a risk of pieces of the file embedding in the bullets' jacket and then scoring the bore but I think this may be a problem with cheaper files, you can always test with a magnetic stud finder if there is a concern.
 
Update- attempt #1 was a partial success.

I built myself a simple sizer using a blank die body, but I underestimated just how much metal the final lapping would remove... so I got to almost the perfect size with my drill/emery cloth, but by the time I finish-lapped it enough for a smooth ride, I wound up with my sizer right at my desired diameter instead of slightly under. I also didn't realize just how much "spring back" a jacketed bullet would have, so I wound up with a lovely ~.4515" sizer now.

All is not lost though- I did at least have great success in making some felt wads! I chucked up a .45 ACP case in my drill and got it spinning fast before pressing it into some felt doorstops from the dollar store! Cheap as heck, and works perfectly- wound up with nice firm consistent wads, just a hair over .45". Also only cost me $3 for well over 100 wads :)

I'm gonna try to find another die body here before too long, but I fear I may just wind up shooting sabots for this year yet, unless I can get a new die built up fast.
 
I have two adjustable full form sizing dies, one for a Krieger barrel and one for a Brux barrel . I recently built a smokeless with a .458 Pacnor barrel which is a little tighter and didn't have an adjustable die for it and I was anxious to try it out so I went with a several fixed smooth sized. I had a .4505 die with produced too much spring back, I had fixed die made from a jig and die shop which was exactly .448 and I polished it with a trial an fit with the most popular bullet I was going to use. I'm still a little undersized and rather than remove too much I slightly knurl for exact fit.
Might get up the nerve to open it up a little more, dunno.

The shop had the die in under 2 weeks ( had to wait for heat treatment , as they outsource that process)
 
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