making dies for bullet swaging and jackets

coyote

coyote

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
57   0   0
Location
New-Brunswick
Has anyone here ever atempted to make swaging dies and jacket drawing dies and mandrels I have been playing with this for a few years in my spare time the problem I am having is drawing good jackets the copper seems to work harden quickly should I anneal between steps? there is no real info on the net that I could find "top secret I think" with the price of quality bullets lately it would be nice to make my own .
I hope this is the right place to post this.
 
My experience with shooting home made jacketed bullets left me uninspired. These were for my .222, and the jackets were recycled rimfire brass, you could read the brand on the base of the bullet. Not even my Gaillard barrel would make these things shoot at 200 yards, but it is not reasonable to compare these to bullets that are made with uniform jackets.

The hardening problem is interesting, and while any additional step is unwelcome, annealing might be the right solution. I just had a quick look on the Corbin site, and they make reference to annealed copper tubing for bullet jackets.
 
I read a lot of the corbin website it would be very expensive tobuy all the necessary equipment required to make bullets.
The swaging dies are not dificult to make it is the dies and mandrels needed to draw the jackets that are tricky concentricity is what determines if you will have good bullets or not,corbin sells the dies for making bullets out of 22 rf spent shells but I have heard from different people that they don't shoot well like boomer says I need to find some good info on making the draw dies for the jackets.
 
If you need jackets, I can help as I deal with Berger. If you want a match quality bullet, getting perfect jackets is a major problem. Might be easier just to buy them.

But for what they cost, you better have the lead and equipment for free cause you will need to shoot a few lifetimes to recoup your costs.

Big reason home bullet making isn't popular.

Jerry
 
I've been doing some looking around, and reading as much as I can find on the subject.

You drawing copper flats out to make jackets? IIRC what I read (one of Corbin's books, I think) the commercial makers annealed between draws on the jacket. The ones that were not using pure copper, were using a deep drawing alloy of copper and tin, as well, which made a difference.

I think the biggest hurdle to get past is the requirement for rigidity and plain old power, to move the material around, and to have the results come out pretty consistent. If you have room for a couple thousand pounds of thumping die press in your basement, it's easier.

IIRC there was a thread here a bit ago that had some pictures posted of the entry level equipment required to deep draw cartridge cases. I doubt that a machine as heavy would be required to draw cups for jackets, but to do a decent job of a 30 or 45 caliber jacket would take a fair bit of "whump".

Drawing rimfire cases. It worked well enough to start the Speer Bullet company. James Calhoon, too, on a smaller scale. Getting the cases cleaned out, seems to be a pretty major part of the work. After that, it's a matter of getting oneself set up with the correct mandrel and draw die diameter, with decent finishes on them.

Using diamond lapping pastes? How's that working out? Have not yet tried the stuff.

I'd like to set myself up to make .17 cal bullets. Was considering the option of drawing cases from copper flat, and pondering the potential results, vs. just buying a great bucket of J4 jackets to last me a lifetime or two, and getting on with a set of swaging dies to make the bullets from that start. But, it's the journey... Sometimes you gotta walk the path a while, to realize you should call a cab! :D

Corbins swaging stuff is pretty good, from all I've heard, except that you'll wait for years, and pay rather more than I figure I want to spend. But They have been pretty free with the information, and say outright that knowing how it's done is not the same thing as being able to do it. Not many substitutes available for hands-on experience!

Cheers
Trev
 
Trev I have been using clover 1200 grit lapping compound for finishing the inside of the draw dies I think my problem is I don't have the right angle for the copper to flow around the mandrels or I have to go with a diferent lapping compound or lube I have tried lanolin case lube mixtures etc.
I should mention I have a lathe ,mill and some grinding equipment . some of the dies and stuff I made work good I need to figure out exactly how to make the dies and mandrels I need to draw good jackets.
 
As an FYI, Lee Valley tools is selling a selection of Diamond grits suitable for lapping use, I think. Seen a fair assortment available at a Rock and Gem place, as well, for use by the facet gem cutters, too.

One of the things that seems pretty regular through all the draw die diagrams I see, is the minimal amount of step that they will do in one go. All the die diagrams that are for dies that will go further, seem to be compounded dies, with separate steps totaling the amount required.

Devils in the details, eh?

Cheers
Trev
 
I think that is what I need to do is make more dies with less variance between sizes maybe increase by .010 -.015 maybe?
Trev do you know where I could actualy get diagrams on these draw dies angles throat lenghth [where the die gets tight ]?
I have tried different lenghts of throats to short makes an deconcentric wobbly jacket and to long the punch will to often bust out the base of the jacket also the angle before the throat I am not sure what the best angle would be I tried a few and it afects the end product often they will come out of the die longer on one side it is hit and miss .
 
Coyote I made my own bullet dies both 22 cal and 6mm cal both 8 and 7 ojive.
I'm sure you know you will need a squirt die for cores, a core seater,and a point die.
I use j4 jackets . My bullets will shoot with the best of them As I have taken a small bit of hardware from some NBRSA shoots here in the eastern region. I found diamond lapping compound to be the best as far as polishing things up. I have never given any thought to making my own jackets (other than from rimfire jackets if things get DIRE).
Making bullets is not fun for me and I don't sell any.To take it one step further and make jackets I think you will need to automate the process or you will be tired of it in a hurry.
Have fun!!
 
coyote said:
I think that is what I need to do is make more dies with less variance between sizes maybe increase by .010 -.015 maybe?
Trev do you know where I could actualy get diagrams on these draw dies angles throat lenghth [where the die gets tight ]?
Click to expand...

I suspect you are on the right track, with more dies and smaller steps per draw.

No idea on a source for the angle/distance relationship on the draw dies, though I suspect it matters less than it should seem. I'd bet that the die makers that played with different settings stopped when they got something that worked, and declared it good, and stuck with that.

Might be worth shooting an email off to the Corbin's and asking. The worst they can do is say nothing.

Have you checked out the small caliber forum at Saubier.com? Coupla commercial bullet makers there. Some of them play in the benchrest game, too. May be a source for some experienced info.

Cheers
Trev
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom