Mandatory certification

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Pepperpopper

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I heard that at the/a SHOT show the trade met and has decided to put in place a gunsmithing certification process. One concequence would be that anyone not so certified would not be able to buy parts or tools of the trade from the likes of Brownells. Currently getting parts up to Canada is pretty frustrating, but individuals would be further precluded from receiving any parts that require fitting. Getting tools like chamber reamers etc... is not currently restricted, but in the future these would only be available to US qualified gunsmiths (and possibly people up here who have a similar qualification, just guessing on that). Clearly that eliminates hobby gunsmiths unless they are clever enough to make everything they require as well as making the guns.

For pros, one concequence would be no sales into the US without the US cert. Certification programs are often popular in an industry when they understand the reduction in competition they can yield.

I couldn't track this down over the internet, since search terms like "mandatory" have lots of secondary uses in this field. Anyone heard of this? Or is it just another fear mongering exercise.
 
Sounds highly improbable. "The trade met" - that would be like trying to get cats to march in a parade. It would also require federal or state legislation/regulation to establish a certification process.
 
I don't disagree, it's probably unlikely you will not be able to buy matching screw drivers. But as to whether a chamber reamer should be less controlled than a guide gun ghost sight... Firearms are pretty straightforward with the exception of a few parts for which special tools are a big asset.

Why control the export of firearms if you don't also intend to control the export of the tools that mean a monkey could make them?

Anyway, I'm not speculating, just wondering what has been heard on the subject. This was the first I had heard about "it".
 
Pure fiction. Don't believe a word of it. I'll second the improbability, or should I say impossibility, of "the trade" meeting at shot.... How can a non-regulated non-unionized, non-organized trade meet? Who met? There is no coherent governing coast to coast Gunsmithing trade or industry organization.

And it would be impossible for any non-regulatory group to tell private companies like Brownells who they can sell what to... Brownells would never voluntarily stop selling to the majority of their customer base....

Someone is pulling your leg.
 
Have any of you gentlemen tried to buy a bolt from Western Gunparts here in Canada? They won't sell it to you without a trade certificate number. bearhunter
 
"I suspect Brownells, Midway.."

Midway was mentioned as being onside, and a supplier/competitor with Brownells. Brownells seems to be informed also.

They only have to get a few big guys onside. Trying to get exports from the US, I have run into willingness to send stuff to me in violation of US rules. Usually I ask whether they have a rep up here, and they kindly offer to send it to me, then I say well you can't easily do it, and they say "thanks, news to me". So my point would be that A) that is probably part of the reason they want more consistancy, and B) they won't get a perfect application of any new rules, but if they control the biggies they will have the same degree of compliance they have today on other maters, and from their perspective a better system. In regulatory issues it's like D-Day. You don't win the war on the first day, but there isn't any progress without getting boots on the ground, or a new regulatory ambit as in this case.

I doubt that Brownells jerks ATFs chain on these maters.

A meeting of the trade does not mean everyone, they just need the majors. I have no specific info about who or how many were there. If it happened I would like to hear the details. I have worked in regulated industries, and when the senior regulator calls you listen, and the regulators I am thinking of don't have black copters, but are more than scarry enough.
 
"...I heard..." That'd be the first words uttered in any Internet rumour.
Midway isn't much of a competitor to Brownell's. Their markets are totally different. Brownells primarliy sells tools, some of which they have made, to smithies and hobbyists. Midway is a retailer of other manufacturer's products.
In any case, no retailer of anything would refuse to sell to anyone legally allowed to buy.
"...in violation of US rules..." Tools are not covered by U.S. export rules. Only major firearm components and parts for modern military firearms require the export permit. The ATF has nothing to do with export regulations. That's strictly the U.S. Dept of Commerce.
"...getting parts up to Canada is pretty frustrating..." What parts do you need?
 
Hey guys I would not worry about this till it becomes manditory for persons in canada to have a smithing licence. At the moment our PAL cards give us the right to handle , fire , buy and maintain our own fire arms. If you ever have a problem ordering from brownells give them your PAL # , its not like they will check the international gunsmith registry to make sure that you are a member. And remember guys as a canadian gunsmith you are eligable for brownells trade discount.
 
"...I heard..." That'd be the first words uttered in any Internet rumour.

True. And the second words are going to be either "didn't you know where have you been?" Or some sputering from people who haven't heard the same rumour and are justifiably skeptical.

"Midway isn't much of a competitor to Brownell's. Their markets are totally different."

At retail right. The issue as explained to me was that they are a supplier to Brownells. I don't know anything about this, or really see how it maters, but the guy talking to me seemed to think that it really meant that the market was even narrower and more easily rounded up.

"Brownells primarliy sells tools, some of which they have made, to smithies and hobbyists. Midway is a retailer of other manufacturer's products.
In any case, no retailer of anything would refuse to sell to anyone legally allowed to buy."

Tell that to ebay.

"...in violation of US rules..." Tools are not covered by U.S. export rules. Only major firearm components and parts for modern military firearms require the export permit."

I know about the tools, but I don't see any guarantee that the gov will hold off them. Why say you can't buy a firearm component but you can get a reamer. There are plenty of people in Pakistan you know just what to do with a reamer.


"The ATF has nothing to do with export regulations. That's strictly the U.S. Dept of Commerce."

That is hardly critical to the argument either way. The claim being made was that ATF was working on this certification issue. I'm just guessing that if that becomes a domestic reality, the last folks getting parts won't be north of the border.

"...getting parts up to Canada is pretty frustrating..." What parts do you need?

Barrels for a 50AK would be nice. All the add on parts like sights etc... I was told could be a 2 years wait, so I am probably just going to look into making them.

I'm only asking these questions because I don't know the answers. So thanks for all the feedback. I'm happier if it isn't true!
 
It's not going to happen. There are far too many gunsmiths that are a one man business, and they are not going to jump through flaming hoops just because a small group wants them to.

"Regulated" trades or industries are almost always regulated because of government regulations, not just a group of people deciding they should "certify" themselves. A group of people certifying themselves doesn't mean anything unless everybody is on board. If Brownells decided not to sell to anyone but "certified" gunsmiths, then you can be darn sure that someone else would step in to fill the void. Thats why it won't happen unless there is government regulation.

(I work in a regulated profession, self policed, but backed by law)
 
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I agree it won't be a misionary activity, someone will have to push and as mentioned ATF is supposed to be the one doing the pushing.
 
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