Mannlicher M-95 Stutzen Question?

Drachenblut

Drachenblut

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Hello,

I am curious if many people are familiar with these gems, or why they seem to be avoided like the plague, in particular ones in the original caliber? I often see them sit forever in gun shops, and online forums for ages without so much as a peep of interest. Why is that?

Just so everyone knows, I happen to have a full Stutzen package with tools to get reloading up on the EE... and it's sat there with over 1800 views and not a single reply or even low ball offer. It makes me curious, I've NEVER had anything sit on the EE for so long.

If you are interested, PM me! Starving student needs cash! :D

Cheers,
Drachenblut
 
The same rifle in better condition with bayonet will sell for ~$220, there's just no demand for them... mainly because, as you mentioned in your ad, ammo is impossible to find and brass/dies are near impossible to find.

Basically, your asking price is way too high.
 
Just a few reasons

1) They use a 330 dia 8mm bullet or one has to paper patch the .323 bullet up to .330.

2) Brass is hard to find, but you can make 8x50 brass out of 7.62x54, You can also make 8x56 brass that same way it's just a little short.

3) Recoil is very stout on the 8x56, don't know about the 8x50

4) You need M95 enblocs to shoot it, you cannot single feed or the extractor will break. (4 for $20 off of ebay)

5) You can buy these rifle for $200 - $300 market.

Lee make the dies for this rifle, So availability is not a problem ebay or any lee seller.
It's called 8x56 Hungarian.
 
Pretty much all of the above. They're neat guns, but ammo, bullets and components are so obscure that most people avoid them. You can see evidence in that the M95's that are in 8mm with internal mags sell quickly, but the unconverted M95's don't.
 
I bought a sweet M95 Stutzen for $135 on the EE in 8x56R and have found a fair bit of ammo for it at gunshows...yours is a very interesting rifle, with a fascinating history, but the demand for it isnt that great. If it were an 8mm Mauser conversion by the Nazi's, that would definetely bring more selling value. The Austrian army in WW1 just isn't as interesting as the other more major players that took part in the conflict. Likewise, the Italian rifles from that era are hard to find, but are relatively cheap as well..I have a Carcano TS carbine that cost me $135 and a really archaic looking Vetterli Vitali rechambered in 6.5 for $150..pretty obscure weapons, but cheap as hell, IMO. (BTW, thank you Corneluc!)
 
H Wally said:
Pretty much all of the above. They're neat guns, but ammo, bullets and components are so obscure that most people avoid them. You can see evidence in that the M95's that are in 8mm with internal mags sell quickly, but the unconverted M95's don't.
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Too bad those are too often sporterized.....:(

I'd love to return my M-95M back into a "full-wood"....:redface:
 
Thank you for the information. However, I should point out my ad is for the 8X50R round, which fires a standard 8mm .323 bullet.

If my asking price is too high, well then she stays up for another week and I've offered people to make offers of any amount. To my knowledge, Lee does not make dies for the 8X50R round. There is a marked difference between the 8X50R and 8X56R round. One does not need any paper patching etc to fire the 8X50R round.

Once again, feel free to have a look.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=591852
 
I recently picked up a beat up, old Vetterli-Vitali 80/87/15 for the same price. Presently, I am fixing a few cracks in the wood but the metal cleaned up really nice. What is the date on yours ? Mine was originally made in 1874, what a history filled rifle it is!

I think the 6.5 Carcano round is lumped into the same undesirable category as the 8x50R; people just don't want to deal with it.

collector67 said:
Likewise, the Italian rifles from that era are hard to find, but are relatively cheap as well..I have a Carcano TS carbine that cost me $135 and a really archaic looking Vetterli Vitali rechambered in 6.5 for $150..pretty obscure weapons, but cheap as hell, IMO.
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The BIG reasons are laziness and the fact that most people can't be bothered to read. They watch The Tube and if it isn't on The Tube it doesn't exist.

95 Stutzen? Shorty? Used in the First Balkan War, Second Balkan War, Great War by most of Southern Europe. Official rifle of the Kaiserlich-und-Konigliche Oesterreichische-Ungarische Heilige Romisch Reich, also of the Kingdom of Bulgaria. Handed out as captures and war trophies (usable ones) and used again in every mess you can think of between the wars, then again in War Two. Chile used them in a war in South America, they were used in War Two by Austria, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Greece, Romania and a few others.

Every Greek, Czech, Austrian, Hungarian, Ukrainian, Slovene, Albanian, Slovak, Macedonian, Bosnian, Romanian or Bulgarian should have one because their grandfathers fought with them or against them.... or both. Every Italian should have one; it is the rifle used against them at Caporetto, when an entire army disintegrated in a single day. Hemingway was driving an ambulance there; he wrote about it. An obscure Catholic priest named Roncalli was another ambulance driver that day; he is up for sainthood right now and I hope he gets it..... and I'm not even Catholic. He was a good man and a real Christian, not one of the fake ones.

Every Canadian should have one; it is the rifle that Sir Charles Ross STARTED with.... and then improved into what we all know was the most accurate rifle ever built. Ross and von Mannlicher were friends, so they did that.

Original ammo is no problem: cartridge casings are just brass bottles; so long as the base is pretty close you can get away with a lot.You can make 40-65WCF out of 45-70USG simply by FL sizing. You do the same with 7.62x54R, using a Lebel die, and you have 8x50R. Bullet is .323, you can buy them anywhere or run your own in an $18 mould from Lee Factory Sales. You only need the .329 mould for the 8x56R30M conversions, and you can even use standard .32 Hornady gas-checks for that one.

If people would just READ these threads they would find out a lot. And one of the things they would find out is that there are LOT more interesting military rifles out there than the ones they have thought of already.
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There's another lost lamb: the Carcano and its round.

There is almost zero physical difference between the Mannlicher-Schoenauer round and the Carcano round: 1mm at the neck. Carcano round, military, is actually hotter than the Greek. Yet the MS is one of the finest cartridges ever designed and the Carcano is a POS. Why? Wartime propaganda which has never been effectively killed.

World War Two is the first war in history in which the propaganda has not stopped when the peace was signed. There is an element of truth in all propaganda, but it still is a warped presentation of the truth.

The Carcano, in the Great War, was that wonderful, lightweight, accurate rifle used by our glorious Italian allies in their ferocious struggle against the Hun and his Habsburg allies. The Carcano only BECAME that POS obsolete junker that the W*ps were using at the instant that Mussolini sent his troops into France in 1940.

Note carefully that only the POLITICS had changed and, thus, the propaganda. The CARCANO itself was unchanged. It was still a very accurate, low-recoiling, fast-operating, quick-loading, lightweight military rifle. Matter of fact, the Italians kept rebuilding them until at LEAST 1956 (I have a 1956 rebuild here) because the obsolete POS Carcano was outshooting their shiny new Garands every time they went out to the range!

But the only thing that had changed was the propaganda.

As to the Carcano, brass is available from Prvi Partizan (through Anthony at Trade-Ex), the special .268 bullet is available from Hornady (also through Trade-Ex), the thing likes 4895 and 4064, eveybody and their dog is now making the dies: no reason at all not to enjoy that wonderful, lightweight, fast-loading Carcano rifle..... or even the ancient VV70/87/915 conversions (of which I have 2: an 1883 and an 1887)..... which are not lightweight at all but are a blast to shoot. Wish I could find one in the original 10.35mm: make that one out of 8mm Lebel brass..... also from Partizan through Trade-Ex.

There are a LOT of interesting things out there. You just have to learn a bit about them.... and then head off to the range and have fun.

Enjoy!
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bryan.14 said:
I bought a M95m 8mm for $150 and would also like to restore it, Are there wood stocks around for them?
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You are unlikely to bump into an M95M wood set as the Yugoslavians took M95 long rifles, cut them down to short rifle length, and modified the stocks to fit. The stock sets in full military configuration are worth more than the sporter rifles in most cases.

I am presently restoring the stock on my M95M with parts I plan to use from an M95 long rifle and a hand guard with barrel ring from a Mauser rifle (maybe a Brazilian 1908).

Does anyone know more about the 8x57mm M95m's?
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M95 long rifles given to Slavs after WW1 as war reparations. They were in the 8x50R caliber as well if I remember correctly. During the 1930s, when Yugoslavia had the funding, they modified selected M95 rifles to short rifle length, replaced the barrel, and modified the bolt head to accept 8x57mm Mauser. The magazine was also modified, closed off on the bottom, and a special en-bloc clip placed in the bottom of the magazine. They closely resemble the Mauser Model 1924 used by Yugoslavia.

Great starter information located here: M95M Article.

One thing I have read is that if you plan to shoot yours, put the rounds in the magazine first otherwise you risk breaking the unique extractor on the bolt head. Replacements are impossible to find.

I plan on hand loading for mine as I don't quite like the idea of using 8x57mm Mauser in an action originally designed for 8x50R. The action on mine is damn smooth though and I cannot wait to restore her and take her to the range.
 
It's a shame no one likes the M95, for all the reasons that Smellie mentioned. She's up for another week gents, then gone forever into my collection.
 
Drachenblut said:
Hello,

I am curious if many people are familiar with these gems, or why they seem to be avoided like the plague, in particular ones in the original caliber? I often see them sit forever in gun shops, and online forums for ages without so much as a peep of interest. Why is that?



For my point the Canadians do not have interest in Austrian Empire common small arms.
They are especially interested in the guns of English speaking world,look at Garand "madness" you can sell a junk at crazy price,and the people will pay.
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bryan.14 said:
Thanks Nabs!, You say the action might not be able to handle strong loads. Do you think 8x57mm Federal Softpoints at 2360 ft/s will be light enough for the M95m action?
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It probably can handle them though my feelings on the action are probably somewhat unfounded but better to be on the safe side with these girls. The Yugos would have tested 1930s era 8mm Mauser ammo in them at the factory that performed the conversion (my guess is that their ammo at the time was closer to the German rounds used in WW1 but this is speculation).

For my M95M, I will hand load as I just don't like the variability of commercial ammo in older rifles.
 
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