Mannlicher (Steyr?) M95 Carbine ... Help

IMagius

IMagius

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My google-fu has left me asking more questions that what I started with :(

The details of what I have ... I have not taken this rifle out fo the stock. It is so covered in cosmo that I just don't want to take the time to clean it yet, or get covered in the stuff myself looking for buried markings - but will if I have to in order to find out what I have.

Barrel & Receiver stamped with same serial #, Bolt Electro-penciled with matching serial # 13xxG (the G only appears on Receiver).

Barrel: is stamped with the "S", so I'm led to believe it's 8mmx56R caliber.
Has a T in a circle on right side & a "star" of some sort beside that.

Bolt: head is stamped with the number 8 on one lug (right lug when bolt is closed), and a K on the bottom (when oriented in bolt closed position).
Firing pin tab (at rear of bolt) is stamped with an R
Bolt handle stamped with a K
safety tab stamped with a K
bottom of bolt handle stamped with the number 10

Very rear of receiver, in bolt groove is stamped with an R
Top of receiver - Budapest M95 (no crests or other marks)
Right side of receiver, at stock line, small proof mark vaguely resembling a bird of some sort.

Upper Hand guard is stamped 43 on upper left side.
Stock (Right side) is marked 6347 (in large characters near butt) with a 2 in a cirlce below that.
Stock (left side) has two small circles (about 1/4" diameter) one has an 2 in it, the other KK - and possible the number 5 under the KK
Buttplate is steel, and has the small recess on the back side of it - no letters stamped anywhere.

Both sling moutns are on the left side. Stock mount is drilled through the stock right at the grip.

Sight is marked from 3 to 24. Marked K on back of it.

Trigger Guard and mag enclosure marked with a K

Front mount/ring has bayonet attachemnt spline, as well as the removable style rack mount stud. Marked with the number 20.

Blonde wood for main stock, "red" wood for handguard.

Rifling looks very good, no rust or pitting (had to swab out half a gallon of comso from within the barrel) and looks very sharp.

Also, it looks like a slightly insane Beaver tried to modify the two recessed "grip" areas in the stock.

So ... what exactly do I have? (or is it a dog's breakfast of parts attached to a matching barrel/receiever)
When was it made?
Is it a Steyr? (from what I read, Steyr used K and other's used the R - and I have both)

All information in greatly appreciated. This is the only Mannlicher I have. It is god forsaken UGLY, and other than it's uniqueness for it's caliber, I have little to no interest in it. I also have no interest in spending months reading through countless pages to try and become an expert on all the minor variations in order to figure out what I have when I'm not even sure it's worth keeping around.

Thanks in advance.

Pictures to follow in my next post.
 
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Budapest made M95 that was either a carbine at the start or an M95 long rifle cut down to carbine length in the 1930s (M95/34 I think) that was modified to accept the 8x56R round in the 1930s. She is still packed in grease too.

Generally these rifles/carbines were made during and before 1918 though we have seen some post war dated examples that were put together with spare parts after WW1. I don't see a date on your example (it would be on the barrel just infront of the receiver).

I really like that blonde wood stock and those huge finger grasping grooves.
 
This is NOT a "for sale" listing ... yet ;)

I want to know what I have and if it has any characteristics or unique apsects or history that I don't know about that would make it appealing to me. I'm not a general Milsurp fan, but that doesn't mean a specific Milsurp couldn't appeal to me.
 
Also,

No dates anywhere I can see (without peeling the wood off of it). I saw commetns on other sites abotu the various ways these were date stamped during rebarreling, etc.. and I don't see any of them on this one, but I know the S barrel means it has been changed at some point to 8x56r.

No "crossed out" serials either. Some sites I found said remakes and modified ones were sometimes re-serialed. I was hoping the proof marks or Serial might give a date range for it's production.

Should I be peeling the wood off this thing and looking deeper? So far, my google-fu has not mentioned any "hidden" markings (other than the butt plate) that require dismantling in order to see them.
 
Its nothing to write home about as M95s go, typical stuff Century imported into Canada by the the truck load in the early 90s. Its a shame the stock is a bit messed up with the redone grooves, but as long as it works. I find it amazing its still packed full of cosmo.
 
Unique aspects of history?

You mean apart from being an actual relic of the old Austro-Hungarian Empire. You know, the one which took NINETY percent casualties during the First World War? Best mountain troops in the world (just as good as the Italian Bersaglieri)? The country that gave us schammelmusik, Lehar, Strauss, Anton Karas, Kocze Antal, Fritz Kreisler, Wanda Landowska and a whole host more? The country where "The Third Man" was filmed, right after WW2: perhaps the finest motion picture EVER? The country which was ripped to SHREDS following World War One...... and gave birth to Poland, a chunk of Ukraine, Czechoslovakia, Austria, Hungary, Yugoslavia, most of which were turned over to the Commies after War Two?

Apart from that, not much historical significance at all.

Nice little rifle, hell of a bark and enough horsepower to knock CPR freight off the tracks or keep your freezer filled for the NEXT 100 years.

Worth keeping?

Mine sure is.
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LoL :D He lives on my dining room table, and I didn't even realize he was in the pic until you quoted it.

As for my OP, I guess what I'm asking is "What does all that information mean?"
 
IMagius said:
As for my OP, I guess what I'm asking is "What does all that information mean?"
Click to expand...

-S on barrel = 8x56R caliber
-T in circle and star = Not sure
-K marked parts = Steyr made
-R marked parts = Budapest made
-"10" on bolt handle = Inspector or process related mark most likely
-Budapest = made in Hungary on machining tools supplied by Steyr (all part of Austro-Hungarian empire as Smellie pointed out earlier)

-Eagle on right side of receiver/barrel = Austro-Hungarian military property mark

-"43" on hand guard = Another possible inspector or process related number
-"6437" on right side of stock = Rifle number that stock was originally part of
-"KK" mark on left side of butt stock = Not sure
-Sling mounts were designed with calvary and infantry in mind so one weapon would fit all. As smellie pointed out, Austrian troops operated in mountain environments so having a handy firearm that can be carried easily is a must in those areas

-Sight is 300m to 2400m (I think they dropped the "Schritt" in the 1930s for range measurements) and relates to the 8x56R. "K" means Steyr made part

-Magazine is marked "K" for Steyr made
-"20" on front band relates to a possible inspector or process related mark
-Mis matched wood is probably not un common for Mannlichers that saw use or were rebuilt after WW1. They were not making these rifles and carbines after 1918 so any rebuilds in the 1930s were done with whatever parts were still on hand.

-As for the enlarged finger grasping grooves, I think this was done possibly in the 1930s but it may have been done in Austro-Hungarian service during WW1. I do not believe "bubba" did this as the carbine is still filled with grease and appears unshot since being imported.

I believe Steyr and Budapest shared parts for production and is probably one of the reasons why Mannlicher rifles lack the excessive serial numbering of their German counterparts.
 
smellie said:
Unique aspects of history?

You mean apart from being an actual relic of the old Austro-Hungarian Empire. You know, the one which took NINETY percent casualties during the First World War? Best mountain troops in the world (just as good as the Italian Bersaglieri)? The country that gave us schammelmusik, Lehar, Strauss, Anton Karas, Kocze Antal, Fritz Kreisler, Wanda Landowska and a whole host more? The country where "The Third Man" was filmed, right after WW2: perhaps the finest motion picture EVER? The country which was ripped to SHREDS following World War One...... and gave birth to Poland, a chunk of Ukraine, Czechoslovakia, Austria, Hungary, Yugoslavia, most of which were turned over to the Commies after War Two?

Apart from that, not much historical significance at all.

Nice little rifle, hell of a bark and enough horsepower to knock CPR freight off the tracks or keep your freezer filled for the NEXT 100 years.

Worth keeping?

Mine sure is.
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Click to expand...

By 90 percent casualties, I presume that you're including wounded along with the fatalities? My grandfather served the Empire in WW1, and while he was injured, it never sounded as though he was some unusually lucky survivor.

As one might suspect from my post, there's people who are interested in Budapest built examples of this carbine (I have relatives who probably used them in WW2 as well). I've only gotten a Steyr produced carbine thusfar.

It's a great gun for shooting cast bullets, which I do with bullets cast from Lee's 205 gr mold.

Regards,

Frank
 
Possible KK could mean some kind of Government ownership. They had just about everything "K und K": Kaiserlich und Koniglich: Imperial and Royal. Even postage stamps were marked KuK, coins were in Latin and paper money was in anything up to eleven languages. Talk about multiculturalism or what!

The horrific casualty numbers include killed, wounded and missing. (Actually, it was only 88%, but that's still pretty awful.)

Snazziest uniforms of all time! Check 'em out and see if you don't agree!

Thing that really bothers me is that the whole First World War came about because of a deeply-flawed system of alliances........ and because Austria-Hungary decided to protect itself against Government-supported terrorists from a neighbouring country: Serbia. Bismarck's system was perfect: if you wanted to start a war and still live up to your treaty obligations, you had to declare war on yourself!

"The next war will be started by some damned fool thing in the Balkans." Furst Otto von Bismarck was right again, as he so often was.
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Hello,

Where are you finding brass? Or are you forming it?

Before I handloaded for my C&R rifles, I passed up a very sweet deal on one of these. I've since been on the lookout as I have the ability to form the brass now.

Regards,

Josh
 
Thanks guys.

So, other than the interesting military history for the area where this was produced, and the straight pull bolt design, it doesn't really have anything that sets it apart from the crowd then.

That's kind of what I was thinking already, but it's nice to have it confirmed.
 
The point is that the little rifle is REAL. It was actually THERE, a PART of all that.... and you own it, even though you may not appreciate it.

It was the inspiration and the starting-point for the design of the ROSS. Von Mannlicher and Ross were friends and swapped ideas regularly. NEWTON worked with Ross on ammo development.

It is MORE than the sum of all of this; it is ITSELF: a relic of Kaiser Frans-Josef I, a relic of Admiral Horthy's Regency government.

To say that "that's all" it is, is like refusing to read a really good book because it is written in the same 26 letters as all the other books.

'Nuff said.

BTW, you can make brass easily by blowing out 7.62x54R. Trade-Ex has the unique .330" slugs.
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Yes, I understand it does carry a certain amount of history with it, and while it is a history that I respect, it's not a history that appeals to me in a strictly "collectable" sense. If this was a Ross or Enfield carried by Canadian troops in WW1, that would be an entirely different story.

The availability of ammunition is not a true concern. I checked my Cartridge Conversion manual, and the brass is easy enough to make, all things considered. But it's not a caliber that grabs my attention either. It doesn't have the lineage or family of other calibers that the 30-06 has, nor the "X" factor of the larger Magnum cases either.

As this thread, and other research has taught me, it was an important rifle, in an important time. I appreciate that, but I don't Value it enough to warrant keeping it.
 
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