Marlin 1895 Black in 45-70 or .444

fuzzy39

fuzzy39

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So I am looking to acquire a new Marlin Black in either 45-70 or .444 Marlin. I have all bases covered already for hunting so this gun will likely be mostly a range toy. Likely it will see some action in thick forest for pigs, moose and elk. What would everyone suggest?? I am a fairly seasoned reloader and will also start casting bullets when I find the time.

Michael
 
had a 4570 in the past and favour the 444. very nice round, recoil not too bad and surprisingly accurate.
 
I've never been able to reconcile the 444 in my mind. It doesn't perform as well as the 45-70, giving up a couple or three hundred FPS with 300 grain bullets, and lacks the heavy bullet weight that a person might want for heavier game. The 45-70-400 will give you the same velocity as the 444-300 and deliver 25% more energy. The 45-70-400 has the 444-300 beaten in Sectional Density by .040. The availability of commercial ammunition likely favours the 45-70 as well and for handloaders either one has plenty of options with the 45-70 outclassing the 444 as bullet weights increase.

All in all, it doesn't really matter for playing on the range, but those are the two cartridges, by the numbers.
 
444 has significantly less recoil, 265 grain has similar sectional density to the 300 4570. A little less horsepower but still all the power you need for moose pig etc. Superformance 265 has 3400 lbs muzzle energy which is respectable. Years ago ken waters wrote an article about the philosophy of the 444 and lighter express type loads which is a good read. 335 grain buffalo bore ammo has a similar sectional density (close but not quote) to the 400 grain 4570. 4570 more pure power, 444 lighter bullets higher velocity less recoil. If all you want is max power and dont care about recoil 4570 is for you, otherwise 444 a great choice imho.
 
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fuzzy39 said:
So I am looking to acquire a new Marlin Black in either 45-70 or .444 Marlin. I have all bases covered already for hunting so this gun will likely be mostly a range toy. Likely it will see some action in thick forest for pigs, moose and elk. What would everyone suggest?? I am a fairly seasoned reloader and will also start casting bullets when I find the time.

Michael
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Mostly a range toy would mean to me as cheap to shoot as possible. Not casting and not immediately looking to I'd look for readily sourced commercial cast or pistol bullets. The .444 has an edge here as the wide variety of pistol projectiles meant for .44 pistol cartridges will work. Not much of an edge, cases are more easily sourced for .45-70 and can be found cheaper. Flip a coin unless you can get one a lot cheaper than another.
 
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Definitely the .45/70... better cartridge, but even if for no other reason than resale value.
 
Limiting yourself to only one of the two, like most here, I'd go with the 45-70. ;) That being said, my first of the two was the 444, which I acquired in the late 60's. With handloads using the Hornady 265gr, it has performed well :d for me on a number of game animals. It's been a loaner to a friend on a couple of successful Moose trips and on the last few trips north for Moose, it has filled the role of a spare rifle. It came in handy once in that role as well. A keeper :).
The 45-70, in the likes of Marlin rifles with their ability to handle todays powerful loads is, the next category up on the power scale. The first 45-70 in the Marlin for me, was the Marlin 1895GS. The straight stock design, especially when using heavier bullets in hotter loads the rifle can handle, can be a little hard on the fingers :redface:. My Son now has that rifle and I've replaced it with a Marlin 1895GBL. Much more to my 'liking'. In it for a jacketed bullet, I'm leaning toward the 400gr and/or the 405gr. I've done some paper punching with it but haven't yet used it in the field, yet;). But, ;) to 'keep it company' I also have a Magnum Research BFR :).
 
For your purposes and performance wise, they are two similar type performers and will really come down to which intrigues you more.

Myself, I have just never been able to get excited about the 45-70 and would choose the 444 just be a little different. Nice to see Marlin offering this cartridge again, and hearing that they have resolved most of the "Remlin" issues!
Have always been a Marlin fan...harvested my first big game animal, a whitetail doe, with my grandfathers 336 in 30-30 when I was 15. Own several JM Marlins today and enjoy them all!
 
BlackRam said:
For your purposes and performance wise, they are two similar type performers and will really come down to which intrigues you more.

Myself, I have just never been able to get excited about the 45-70 and would choose the 444 just be a little different. Nice to see Marlin offering this cartridge again, and hearing that they have resolved most of the "Remlin" issues!
Have always been a Marlin fan...harvested my first big game animal, a whitetail doe, with my grandfathers 336 in 30-30 when I was 15. Own several JM Marlins today and enjoy them all!
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:)True enough. Sorta' like a comparison of the 308 and 30-06.
 
fuzzy39 said:
So I am looking to acquire a new Marlin Black in either 45-70 or .444 Marlin. I have all bases covered already for hunting so this gun will likely be mostly a range toy. Likely it will see some action in thick forest for pigs, moose and elk. What would everyone suggest?? I am a fairly seasoned reloader and will also start casting bullets when I find the time.

Michael
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45/70 for the win! My SBL1895 is my goto bush gun...drops EVERYTHING right where they stand. Love it!
 
hoytcanon said:
Definitely the .45/70... better cartridge, but even if for no other reason than resale value.
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Don't think so. Theres dozens of 45-70s in the EE all the time but 444 maybe 2 or 3. 444 for me, the 45-70 is a good caliber but has be come some what of a fad.
 
MRP said:
Don't think so. Theres dozens of 45-70s in the EE all the time but 444 maybe 2 or 3. 444 for me, the 45-70 is a good caliber but has be come some what of a fad.
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How many have your tried to sell? With two EE deals... I've gone that route three times and "ate it" every time... not so with the .45/70, dozens of sales have shown that you'll get your money back.
 
Have x3 444s & x3 45/70s.... all but one JM’s and all are awesome. If could have just one tho it would be a 45/70....but you will have to pry the 444s outta my dead hands ;)
 
Have the 45-70 & 450 Marlin, both good guns, both good cartridges. May add the 444 Marlin to the stack one day.
 
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