massive muzzle flash with H335?

mikeystew

mikeystew

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i loaded a 200 grain XTP over 55 grains of H335 for my 444s marlin and got a shocking 16" muzzle flash out of the 22" barrel. the load data was given for a 200 grain barnes X bullet in my lee die set.

How dangerous is it really? is it bad for the gun in any way? it grouped rather well... and i've read that it's just the gasses from the powder combustion igniting when it hits the oxygen in the air.

if i were to try a magnum primer, how much should i reduce the load of H335? and does this seem like a "too slow powder" issue to anyone, a too light bullet for the powder?

does anyone have a good powder recommendation? one that might be available... i know that V-120 is meant to be the bees knees, but i've never seen it in the flesh.

on a side note, if it causes no harm to the rifle and groups well... i kinda like the big flash and loud boom.
 
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Hodgdon says 55 grains of H335 is 1 grain under max for a 200 grain XFB(XPB) bullet. It'll be fine. Some powders are just flashy.
You only need a magnum primer if the manual says to use 'em. They're for lighting hard to ignite powders and cold weather shooting. They burn a bit hotter for a bit longer than standard primers.
 
Big flash and BOOOM! is just fine if it shoots accurately. Means your powder is slow and is burning out in the air. I had a bunch of that old War Two powder that was sold as "Number 44" and it did this in my M-1 but shot nice. Switched from 150 to 165-grain slugs and everything became very polite, no more boom, no more scorching the 200-metre targets and groups stayed nice and tight.

Unburnt powder in the barrel means that your powder is 'WAY too slow. Had that in my Remington .50 with a too-slow powder (IMR-4198) and a 515-grain slug. Utterly ZIP accuracy, bullet went wobbling downrange at a shade over 14 ft/sec. Changed to a proper quick powder for the cartridge (SR-4759) and the problem disappeared.... and the gun now shoots more-or-less acceptably.

Have fun!
 
I get exactly the same thing with my 30-30 using H335, it has a 22 inch bbl.

When I use H335 in my .223 with a 26 inch bbl there is no dramatic flash
 
roberti11 said:
I get exactly the same thing with my 30-30 using H335, it has a 22 inch bbl.

When I use H335 in my .223 with a 26 inch bbl there is no dramatic flash
Click to expand...

Some of the military surplus powders Hogdon distributes were produced with no flash suppressant. Likely a concession to increased production and decreased cost.

It looks real out of place when I see a orange pumpkin sized fireball at the muzzle of my 6PPC bench rifle through my 36X Leupold.

NormB
 
I rather like a huge fireball.
I have fond memories of firing some Norinco .223 out of a Mini-14 at dusk, just to see a flame the size of a basketball
 
I find there's quite a big muzzle flash from the WC845 I am using now (it's an H335-like powder).

Nothing wrong with muzzle flash, nor does it indicate that the powder has not fully burned in the barrel. With rifles, unless you have an unusually low pressure loading, all the powder will be burnt in the first 12" or so of the barrel.

The reason that a "flash" is seen with 20+" barrels, is that most powders burn "rich", i.e. they are not completely oxidized even when they are "fully burnt". So the hot gas exiting the muzzle has some carbon monoxide (CO) and hydrogen (H2), as well as carbon dioxide and water vapour. When hot CO and H2 start mixing with air, ignition occurs, resulting in muzzle flash.

Because muzzle flash is distracting to sport shooters (and attracts dangerous attention for military shooters), most powders have "flash supressant" chemicals added to the powder. They work by inhibiting the ignition of the hot CO+H2 when it enters the air. There are still some powders around that have no flash supressants, or not particularly effective flash supressants, e.g. your H335 and my WC845.


For what it's worth, the "Type 44" powder from Ammomart (of several decades ago vintage) is known to be an unstable powder (this is unrelated to the *spectacular*, daytime-visible flash that it produces). If anybody has any, I would suggest that you destroy it rather than shoot it, I have heard of guns ruined (blown up) with gone-bad Type 44 powder.
 
what would anyone consider first for raising the pressure? im going to try a magnum primer next. today i loaded 2 rounds with minimal use of the expander die to give a tighter neck tension on the bullet and tightened the crimp... still a big flash and bore full of kernels.
 
mikeystew said:
what would anyone consider first for raising the pressure? im going to try a magnum primer next. today i loaded 2 rounds with minimal use of the expander die to give a tighter neck tension on the bullet and tightened the crimp... still a big flash and bore full of kernels.
Click to expand...

Magnum primers will only raise the pressure a small amount, likely not nearly enough for you.

If you look at the load data tables for 200 grain bullets in .444, it looks like it is volume-limited for many of the powders.

You might try adding another grain or two of H335, but chances are you've probably got a case full.

Best bet would be to go to a powder that is quick enough to reach max pressure. On Hodgdon's online date, they have data for H335, Benchmark, H322 and H4198. Only H4198 gets into the 40s K-CUP, and even that is a compressed load.

If you have IMR4198 or H4198 on hand, I would use that powder instead.

(you can always look in a Lyman book, it is one of the better one for oddball combos - you might find some data there for a slow pistol powder)
 
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