Mauser Kar 98k - East German Refurb

[RAMROD]

I would appreciate if someone who knows East German refurb K98ks could mention features by which an East German refurb can be identified and distinguished from other refurbs such as RCs.

I have come across the following East German features mentioned in some previous strings like:
1. replaced worn out barrels with new barrels - therefore the bore should still be bright.
2. Electropencilled two last gidits of the s/n on the safety wing and possibly on the cocking piece.
3. acceptance mark "crown over either "U" or "R" stamped on the receiver
4. installed new laminated stocks, which have sort of like a reddish tint

Also in your experience did the East Germans also do this:
- did they re-blue receivers, bands, or other parts of the gun
- did they force-match by crossing out the old numbers and re-stamping the new serial numbers or did they grinded off the old numbers and stamped the new ones?
- did they also match the new stock and the buttplate to the receiver?
Certainly would very much appreciate the input
Ramrod

 

[H Wally]

On most that I've seen they were completely refurbed, looked brand new in all respects, with matching 4 digit numbers, whether ground and restamped or crossed out and restamped. Also some apparently had markings on the top and/or bottom of the wrist. From memory main serial # on top of reciever and left side. A few have the czech front sight ears, but that's definitely not absolute.

 

[Claven2]

I would appreciate if someone who knows East German refurb K98ks could mention features by which an East German refurb can be identified and distinguished from other refurbs such as RCs.

I have come across the following East German features mentioned in some previous strings like:
1. replaced worn out barrels with new barrels - therefore the bore should still be bright. ALSO WILL BE DEVIOD OF NAZI FIRING PROOFS AND SERIAL NUMBER IF IT IS A REPLACEMENT
2. Electropencilled two last gidits of the s/n on the safety wing and possibly on the cocking piece. IF THE GUN WAS RE-STAMPED MATCHING, NEARLY 100% OF THE TIME THE FLAG SAFETY WILL HAVE LAST 2 DIGITS OF SN ELECTRO-PENCILLED ON IT (NOT SURE WHY). IF NOT RE-NUMBERED MATCHING, THERE WILL BE NO ELECTROPENCIL ON THE RIFLE ANYWHERE.
3. acceptance mark "crown over either "U" or "R" stamped on the receiver YOU ALSO SOMETIMES SEE A SUNBURST OR SHIELD WITH A 23 INSIDE IT NEAR THE STOCK WRIST IF THE RIFLE WAS SUBSEQUENTLY ISSUED TO THE VOLKSPOLITZEI, THOUGH NOT ALL WERE
4. installed new laminated stocks, which have sort of like a reddish tint SOMETIMES NEW STOCKS WERE INSTALLED, BUT ORIGINAL STOCKS WERE ALSO RE-USED WHEN IN GOOD SHAPE. THE REPLACEMENT STOCKS LOOK LIKE LATE-WAR KRIEGSMODEL STOCKS WITH THE TAKEDOWN HOLE IN THE CUPPED BUTTPLATE, BUT WITH EARLY TO MID-WAR TPYE BAND RETENTION SPRING AND BAYONET LUG

Also in your experience did the East Germans also do this:
- did they re-blue receivers, bands, or other parts of the gun YES
- did they force-match by crossing out the old numbers and re-stamping the new serial numbers or did they grinded off the old numbers and stamped the new ones? BOTH WERE DONE, ALSO THEY SOMETIMES DID NOT BOTHER TO RENUOMBER THE RIFLES MATCHING - DEPENDS WHEN THE REFURB WAS DONE
- did they also match the new stock and the buttplate to the receiver? TYPICALLY NEITHER WAS STAMPED MATCHING, BUT SOMETIMES THEY WERE
Certainly would very much appreciate the input
Ramrod

In general, I consider there are 2 basic patterns of East German refurbs:

Early pattern:
Typically re-stocked in the post-war semi-kriegs type stock with band spring, but usually with original barrel. Handguard will often be non-laminate beech. all serial numbers visible have been re-stamped matching, old numbers either removed or lined out. Bore usually nice despite original barrel. Usually will have the VOPO markings. Reblued. Will usually have commercial type proofs. Universally will have electro-pencilled flag safeties.

Later Pattern:
Usually NOT re-stocked, but almost always with a new barrel devoid of most markings. Stock can be of any wartime pattern, though sometimes the odd post-war stock shows up too. It will be lightly sanded and generally will have no remaining nazi markings on the wood exterior. Handguards are typically refurbished wartime laminate or walnut. Most serial numbers will remain mis-matched, though sometimes the bolt will be re-numbered (not always). Reblued. Typically no VoPo markings. No electro-pencil.

I do not know for certain, but the following is my theory:
What I call the "early pattern" EG reworks were the rifles in inventory in the best condition immediately after the war. They were inexpensively refurbed because the barrels were serviceable and were mostly issued to the volkspolitzei, while the Russians remained the only real military presence in the country. Lots of late-war stock blanks were still available and were re-used to replace worn stocks.

What I call the "later pattern" guns were refurbed after the bulk of soviet troops left and more east germans were armed to defend the satellite state. The less-easy guns to fix were then refurbed with serviceable new-production barrels (probably from Czechoslovakia) and wherever possible, original furniture was reworked and re-used to save money. These guns are usualyl seen in like-new condition and probably many went to war reserve, the rest arming second-line troops who didn't get better guns like SKS's and AK's such as troops manning checkpoints, the Berlin Wall, etc.

Again these are just my theories based on observation of many examples, as far as I am aware, no definitive study of these guns has been published.

 

[Riflechair]

The People's Police
My observation is that they all have the electro-pencilled safety

The Volkspolizei (German for "People's Police") was the national police of the German Democratic Republic (East Germany), whose officers were commonly nicknamed VoPos, although GDR citizens called the Volkspolizei "VP", "Bullen (Cops)" or even "die Grünen" (the green guys, because of the green police uniform). Formed following the end of World War II and abolished after German reunification, Volkspolizei officers were trained like soldiers and were thus more of a gendarmerie or a constabulary. They were highly effective in enforcing the policies of the East German government.

The Volkspolizei, as well as fulfilling traditional police duties such as investigation and traffic control, also worked closely with the Stasi and had their own network of informants that would crosscheck information gathered by Stasi informants, and vice versa.

Unlike the West German police forces, the Volkspolizei was a national police force and was directly administered by and was directly subordinate only to the Ministry of the Interior. It was run like a second army, with corresponding ranks and use of military drill.

Though this prevented corruption, it also greatly restricted the discretionary freedoms of its officers, meaning that some crimes remained unsolved because the perpetrators escaped while investigating officers needed to go through lengthy and complicated bureaucratic procedures.

Rather than the civil service status that West German police enjoyed, each Volkspolizist had a personal contract with the government, though they were well paid, and were guaranteed an apartment in a nice suburb of a large city, and special shops for them and their families.

A very limp wristed salute if I do say so.

 

[RAMROD]

Wow, lots of info thanks a lot guys.
Ramrod

 

[Riflechair]

You are most welcome