Mausers in 308 win? Dont they mean spitzer?

kennymo said:
This. Came up on another forum just a week or so ago. The FR7's are potentially dangerous with regular 7.62 NATO ammo. I say potentially because some have used it and still have all their fingers, but it is right on the cusp of the pressure the firearm can handle and there were supposedly incidents.... Anyway, Spain took some of the powder out of the NATO round, and called it the CETME. Kind of ruins the ammo sharing potential the conversion was supposed to give in the first place.... I believe the FR8 is a stronger action, but don't quote me. Any of the common Model 98 conversions are plenty strong to handle 308 Win.
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The M1893 based Spanish 7.62x51mm (.308 Win) conversions were originally from a rifle and action designed in 1893 to handle a 45,000 psi cartridge.

The 7.62x51mm cartridge is around 55,000 psi max design and the .308 Win. is a SAAMI spec designed to a max of 65,000 psi.

The fact that these Spanish converted rifles are shooting factory .308 Win ammo in them regularly is cause for concern as the action was only designed to handle regular 45,000 max psi ammo and 65,000 psi ammo is like proof testing it every time you shot it with these factory ammo.

But the fact that the independent H.P. White ballistic labs tested a bunch of these rifle to destruction and they only started failing at above 98,000 psi strength loads is a testament to Mauser's excellent design. The biggest worry is shooting this factory ammo in one with excessive headspace and the lack of gas handling this action has over the far better designed M98 Mauser action. If you get a case head rupture or primer piercing your going to get a lot of hot angry gas in the face.

Best to shoot lighter bullets around 150-165 gr in economy factory ammo or better yet safe level handloads and leave the heavy light magnum .308 Win ammo for newer designed .308 rifles. Any of the Spanish M98 Mauser's in good condition are good to go with any .308 win factory ammo and I remember reading a test report were most non late wartime (WW2) M98 rifles in good condition and not excessive headspace are able to handle loads up to 100,000 before failure. You might crack your stock, bulge a barrel or lose a extractor but the action will hold together and the M98 Mauser action has the best gas handling of basically all bolt action designs.

Here a article discussing the H.P. White lab test of early m1893 actioned 7.62mm/.308 Spanish Mauser's -

GAM1916_Article.gif
 
"The 7.62x51mm cartridge is around 55,000 psi max design and the .308 Win. is a SAAMI spec designed to a max of 65,000 psi."

Not quite. The pressure limits of the military and sporting versions are about the same. The 7.62x51 came first and at that time the pressure was specified as 55,000 CUP. Some military publications referrred to this as 55,000 psi. This is where the myth began that the NATO round is lower pressure.

I have tested IVI (Canadian military) 7.62 ammo that was 63,000 psi.
 
Ganderite said:
"The 7.62x51mm cartridge is around 55,000 psi max design and the .308 Win. is a SAAMI spec designed to a max of 65,000 psi."

Not quite. The pressure limits of the military and sporting versions are about the same. The 7.62x51 came first and at that time the pressure was specified as 55,000 CUP. Some military publications referrred to this as 55,000 psi. This is where the myth began that the NATO round is lower pressure.

I have tested IVI (Canadian military) 7.62 ammo that was 63,000 psi.
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Your right, I did a more thorough look online and found that 7.62x51mm ammo was quoted as 50,000 psi, 50,000 cup, 55,000 psi, 62,000 psi, 415 MPa (60,191 psi) and 7.62x51mm CETME at 40-45,000 psi.

Apparently the reason for all the different PSI rating for 7.62x51mm ammo was that each NATO member and many non NATO country made their 7.62x51mm ammo to their own max PSI rating, the more important criteria was that the ammo function in all their weapons to a set standard and had a similar trajectory.

Apparently Japan among others loaded their 7.62x51mm ammo way lower than NATO countries to cause less wear and tear on their weapons and soldiers and at a average psi of 50,000. They could only use NATO or US 7.62x51mm ammo in their type 64 rifle in emergencies as it would break parts and cause excessive wear.

But all the official references quote 62,000 psi for the 7.62x51mm NATO round as the standard.

And SAAMI lists the .308 Winchesters pressure limit between 62,000 to 66,000 psi depending on bullet loading.

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/specifications/Velocity_Pressure_CfR.pdf
 
gaff said:
your gun plumber ? is referring to Spanish rifles that were rebarreled for the CETME cartridge that was standard in Spain until the 1980’s . this cartridge is a less power full .308 or 7.62 Nato. Mauser Mod 95s
Guess the Spanish can’t handle the recoil . Is your rifle a mod95 or mod 98 ???
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I didn't buy one because this hole issue scared me away from it. but I preffer the look of the mod 98 and am now reconsidering getting one.
 
Mike Webb said:
x3 on that one. A spitzer is simply a pointed bullet and is not a calibre designation. He has probably confused the Spanish 7.62 CETME with the 7.62 NATO. I think the CETME was loaded to lower pressures then the NATO round.
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this is correct......same case, lower pressure load....
 
Here in UK, where ex-military firearms have to be proofed by one of the two proof houses [London or Birmingham] 7.62x51 can often be marked as proofed at 20 tons per square inch, while commercial proofs for .308Win are set at 21 tons per square inch.

All the milsurp non-7.92x57 or other military calibres in which they were contract-made Mausers I've seen have either been proofed - and stamped accordingly - as one or the other. Bear in mind also that NATO ball usually comes in 147/150gr bullet weight.

tac
 
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