MG34 Fortress Can/Old Ammo and Questions/Problems

agentcq

Regular
Rating - 100%
69   0   0
For once I was pretty happy about German over-engineering.

I recently acquired a MG34 Fortress ammo can with the less common 300 round continuous belt. The belt was loaded with 1943 8mm Mauser ball and tracer rounds. Due to bi-metal rusting between the belt and the rounds, corrosion was visible. I was stuck with the dilemma of letting history waste away, or taking part in preservation.

I decided to preserve the belt and the ammo. At first I decided that I would push the ball end of each round onto a wooden work bench - as a result the rounds should push out of the belt and no pressure would be applied near the primers. I have used this method on 50 round belts with great success. After a couple of four letter words, sweat and some bruised knuckles I sadly realized that many of the rounds were rusted solid to the belt. I did not want to soak the belt/rounds in a penetrating oil as I did not want to contaminate the primers. It was time for Plan B.

Plan B involved mounting my TNW MG34 into my 1942 Lafette mount. With this nice stable platform, I would let the bolt/action do all the hard work. By cycling the rounds through the MG, they would be stripped off the belt and ejected onto a towel which I had placed under the mount. I had the foresight to realize that I was dealing with unstable ammo and made sure to complete this task in a safe location with a clear line of sight/arcs of fire.

Initially Plan B worked very well. The action took some prompting but one by one the rounds were cleared from the belt, chambered and ejected onto my towel. At about 100 rounds "BANG", smoke poured from the receiver and a whiff of smoke left the barrel. I was very surprised by this as the safety was engaged. I opened up the action and found the shredded base of one of the casings. I needed to removed the barrel to extract the top half of the same shredded casing. The casing was split in two and cracked vertically down the entire length of the casing. To my surprise when I completed a barrel inspection, there was no light. As pressure and gas had escaped elsewhere, there was not enough pressure to push the ball out of the barrel, the ball was still stuck somewhere in the barrel. Luckily the MG34 is designed with a barrel exchange system. Thirty seconds of less and I had the MG mounted with a new barrel. Well that was enough for Plan B, I would later move onto Plan C, D and eventually E.

Once all the rounds were removed I started to clean/inspect each shell. About 70% of the shells were fine, 15% had slight surface corrosion easily removed with a bronze wool, 5% were heavily pitted and declared NS and about 10% were corroded so badly that after I rubbed off some rust you could see powder within the cartridge. I am convinced it was one of these shells that caused the ND. What was more interesting is that the cartridges appeared to be rusting from the inside out (talk about corrosive ammo). This just goes to show why you need to be careful when using surplus ammo and why cartridge inspection even on modern ammo is a good idea. If I had been using a weaker action who knows what ill could have come to me. If I did not have an exchangeable barrel system, the rifle would be NS. This is why I do not shoot WWII ammo, but like to keep it for collector purposes.

My plan was to clean the belt/round, lightly oil them and place them back in the fortress can. Is this a good idea? Or will have the same problem of rust? Part of me thinks that the rust was due to improper storage and prolonged length of storage (50-70+ years). If maintained well and kept in a good environment, will rust continue to be a problem?

Now my final question is how to remove the ball from the barrel????
 
Last edited:
My first question is how the hell you came accross a find like that!?

And, how does your Lafette work with the TNW? Can you fire it on the Lafette with the stupid heavy TNW trigger pull?
 
Check your ejector pin in the bolt head and see if that is what set off the primer ..........
When it strikes the ejector plate on the right hand side of the receiver, it pushed the pin forward and might have been long enough to strike the primer. Fitting the ejector pin is not for the feint of heart and it takes a while to learn the tricks of doing it. Too long and if stuck forward position you might have had happen what you had occur. Did you find the base of the round ???
PM me if you want....
 
For once I was pretty happy about German over-engineering.

I recently acquired a MG34 Fortress ammo can with the less common 300 round continuous belt. The belt was loaded with 1943 8mm Mauser ball and tracer rounds. Due to bi-metal rusting between the belt and the rounds, corrosion was visible. I was stuck with the dilemma of letting history waste away, or taking part in preservation.

I decided to preserve the belt and the ammo. At first I decided that I would push the ball end of each round onto a wooden work bench - as a result the rounds should push out of the belt and no pressure would be applied near the primers. I have used this method on 50 round belts with great success. After a couple of four letter words, sweat and some bruised knuckles I sadly realized that many of the rounds were rusted solid to the belt. I did not want to soak the belt/rounds in a penetrating oil as I did not want to contaminate the primers. It was time for Plan B.

Plan B involved mounting my TNW MG34 into my 1942 Lafette mount. With this nice stable platform, I would let the bolt/action do all the hard work. By cycling the rounds through the MG, they would be stripped off the belt and ejected onto a towel which I had placed under the mount. I had the foresight to realize that I was dealing with unstable ammo and made sure to complete this task in a safe location with a clear line of sight/arcs of fire.

Initially Plan B worked very well. The action took some prompting but one by one the rounds were cleared from the belt, chambered and ejected onto my towel. At about 100 rounds "BANG", smoke poured from the receiver and a whiff of smoke left the barrel. I was very surprised by this as the safety was engaged. I opened up the action and found the shredded base of one of the casings. I needed to removed the barrel to extract the top half of the same shredded casing. The casing was split in two and cracked vertically down the entire length of the casing. To my surprise when I completed a barrel inspection, there was no light. As pressure and gas had escaped elsewhere, there was not enough pressure to push the ball out of the barrel, the ball was still stuck somewhere in the barrel. Luckily the MG34 is designed with a barrel exchange system. Thirty seconds of less and I had the MG mounted with a new barrel. Well that was enough for Plan B, I would later move onto Plan C, D and eventually E.

Once all the rounds were removed I started to clean/inspect each shell. About 70% of the shells were fine, 15% had slight surface corrosion easily removed with a bronze wool, 5% were heavily pitted and declared NS and about 10% were corroded so badly that after I rubbed off some rust you could see powder within the cartridge. I am convinced it was one of these shells that caused the ND. What was more interesting is that the cartridges appeared to be rusting from the inside out (talk about corrosive ammo). This just goes to show why you need to be careful when using surplus ammo and why cartridge inspection even on modern ammo is a good idea. If I had been using a weaker action who knows what ill could have come to me. If I did not have an exchangeable barrel system, the rifle would be NS. This is why I do not shoot WWII ammo, but like to keep it for collector purposes.

My plan was to clean the belt/round, lightly oil them and place them back in the fortress can. Is this a good idea? Or will have the same problem of rust? Part of me thinks that the rust was due to improper storage and prolonged length of storage (50-70+ years). I maintained well and kept in a good environment, will rust continue to be a problem?

Now my final question is how to remove the ball from the barrel????

Was it a variety of Brass and Steel Case Ammo?

If the belts and ammo were corroded, probably so are the internal parts now on your TNW semi auto. Might need a good cleaning.

What have you tried to get the bullet out of the barrel so far?
 
Last edited:
WWII German ammo was made to have a 3 year shelf life. they put wet powder in the steel cases. sealing in the moisture. as we all now steel rusts especially if not stored properly. using WWII steel casings now can be dangerous. as the rust will be on the inside of the casings.
 
WWII German ammo has a problem with the powder turning acidic and corroding the case from the inside out. This is irreversable and the only solution is to pull the bullet and discard the powder. This has been a problem identified since the 1960s.
For a full discussion of this see "German 7,9 MM Military Ammunition" DW Kent
 
My first question is how the hell you came accross a find like that!?

And, how does your Lafette work with the TNW? Can you fire it on the Lafette with the stupid heavy TNW trigger pull?

To make you even more jealous the find came with a "CE" Sauer SSR K98 with original base (missing upper mount/scope), I have pics on the K98forum if you do a search I also have pics of the Lafette mount from last summer. I had to wait about six months for the stuff to come from the US via my importer, I was also able to get the AA extension for the Lafette as well.

The Lafette is the bomb. Barrel exchanging is made easy as pie and the trigger system on the mount acts as a lever and quickly resolves the TNW tough trigger pull. It is also very accurate. All I need now is the scope for the mount and then I might be willing to take it deer hunting with 5 round belts.

The ammo was steel cased and tracer rounds are brass cased. It is tough to tell from what is left, but I am pretty sure the exploded case was brass.

I will need to check that ejector pin, I know that slam fires/other problems do hapen with these rifles.

I am thinking of using compressed air to remove the stuck ball fromt he barrel?

Any thoughts on what to do with the remaining ammo? It is all oiled and I need to clean and oil the belt tonight. Part of me wants to store them seperately and the other part wants to keep them together. If lighlty oiled and in a good dry environment, I shouldn't have problems with further rust, except from the inside...
 
To make you even more jealous the find came with a "CE" Sauer SSR K98 with original base (missing upper mount/scope), I have pics on the K98forum if you do a search I also have pics of the Lafette mount from last summer. I had to wait about six months for the stuff to come from the US via my importer, I was also able to get the AA extension for the Lafette as well.

The Lafette is the bomb. Barrel exchanging is made easy as pie and the trigger system on the mount acts as a lever and quickly resolves the TNW tough trigger pull. It is also very accurate. All I need now is the scope for the mount and then I might be willing to take it deer hunting with 5 round belts.

The ammo was steel cased and tracer rounds are brass cased. It is tough to tell from what is left, but I am pretty sure the exploded case was brass.

I will need to check that ejector pin, I know that slam fires/other problems do hapen with these rifles.

I am thinking of using compressed air to remove the stuck ball fromt he barrel?

Any thoughts on what to do with the remaining ammo? It is all oiled and I need to clean and oil the belt tonight. Part of me wants to store them seperately and the other part wants to keep them together. If lighlty oiled and in a good dry environment, I shouldn't have problems with further rust, except from the inside...

Mine won't overcome the trigger pull so the Lafette is all show and no go :(
 
For removing the stuck round, push it out hte way it went in (muzzle to breech). the best solution is a brass rod longer than the barrel and a dead-blow hammer. the rod should be as close to bore diameter as you can find to prevent hammering of the rifling or muzzle damage.

It would help to dribble some lube in behind the bullet first to lubricate the extraction.
 
hmm... sooo i shouldnt be firing the 1946 8mm mauser surplus ammo i got at a gun show?

I would inspect the ammo first. The problem is that the cases I was dealing with were obstructed by the belt, so I could not inspect the whole case untill the rounds were removed from the belt.

Once removed, I could see several of the cases were highly pitted, this pitting weakens the casing. Just like with modern casing's and reloading, if you have pitted cases, to stay on the safe side you throw those away and don't reload them.

The problem with the corrosive powder/primers is the case could be fine on the outside, but pitted/weakend on the inside. You just don't know. I have shot late 1940 and early 1950 surplus ammo with no problems. I think some of the problems with war time ammo is the quality control was very poor and the potential for sabotage due to the use of slave labour.

If you have shot the ammo and had no problems, inspect the shells and keep shooting. The problem with 1946 ammo is that it has little collectors value, where war time ammo usually goes for $0.75-$2.00 a round.

I was able to remove that bullet with a pretty easily. It was only about one inch down the barrel, so after soaking it in oil for a few days, I was able to tap it out with a steel rod.
 
Back
Top Bottom