Mid load pressure signs

[aheppner]

I was loading .223 for my savage, i had flattened primers when i was FL resizing but when i switched to neck only they looked normal.

 

[ATOM]

Becoming an older thread now, but I just had a thought. I am using Federal brass and FL resizing every time (I currently don't have a neck sizing die). On the third and fourth reloadings of the cases I have noticed that it takes considerably less effort to seat primers. I am assuming that the primer pockets have opened up a bit since the brass was new. Would this looser fitment of the primers cause them to move out of the pocket and squeeze against the bolt face, thus flattening them? I have read in several places that Federal brass is sometimes not as hard as it should be in the case head..... any thoughts?

Loose primer pockets is another sign of excess pressure. The problem with all of them - hard extraction, flattened primers, cratered primer marks, etc - is that they are not scientific measurements, just empirical indicators, warning signs. You can have excess pressure with only some of them or none of them, actually. Nor is muzzle velocity a reliable indication; while there is a general correspondence, it's not a straight line.

From what I can see, you are essentially maxed out for propellent (1/10th of a grain difference) according to one major reloading source and you're noticing a couple of signs of high pressure in the form of deformed primers and loose pockets. I think it's reasonable (even if other sources say you can go higher) for you to assume that you are overpressure with the load in question. Your call, of course, but I would personally dial that down a mite.

 

[Cleftwynd]

The reason reloading manuals have a START charge, and a MAX charge is that some rifles will reach peak pressure a lot sooner than others, if the MAX pressure was safe in ALL rifles it would be listed as the START charge, and would be safe in ALL rifles, then you could work up from there.

You must note that often peak pressures will be reached before you get to the MAX listed in a manual, the opposite can also be true. I like to look at data from as many sources as possible and start at the lowest listed I can find. Sometimes I can reach the MAX listed in all books, sometimes I can not. YMMV

Reloading should be something we pay extreme attention to, and never ever ASSUME anything.

 

[762shooter]

I was loading .223 for my savage, i had flattened primers when i was FL resizing but when i switched to neck only they looked normal.

That may be because the neck sized case has more interior volume than the full length sized cases so the powder has a bit of expansion room on ignition.

 

[H4831]

Baribal - I have checked the case walls with a bent paperclip and they seem fine, no apparent case head seperation

Ganderite - I have loaded up some new rounds with less powder for further testing. I dropped the powder by .4gr

H4831 - I thought they may have been a little high, but wasn't seeing any other pressure signs so I though maybe the heads were just "soft". Are these brass still safe to continue loading with lower powder charges, or should they tossed in the garbage and start with new brass? I have been looking for an excuse to buy some Lapua brass......

The mark you are looking for with your paper clip, has absolutely nothing to do with excess pressure. The mark of partial head seperation is caused by excessive head space.
How loose is too loose for the primers is always a concern. I know of no definitive way to know if they are OK to shoot or not. Probably the greatest and most practical gun writer of all time was Jack O'Connor and I have complete trust in what he wrote. Except.
He once wrote on this subject, that if you could push the new primer in with your thumb, it was too loose. To my way of thinking this is MUCH too loose. I prime on the press, always conscience of the pressure rquired to push the primer in. If suddenly a primer goes in with half the power, I take the case out and squash it in the press, so no one else will use it.
It's a tough call, and tougher yet to advise somebody else on it.
However, if a primer doesn't hold the pressure of the shot, it is not a nice event. Getting the extractor back together, even if you find all the pieces, is not something to look forward to, especially if your ears are still ringing!