middlesex double flintlock smoothie

Musketfire

Musketfire

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Yup.....After waiting patiently for the past 3 years it is finally happening!

Middlesexvillagetrading will be offering a double flintlock in 62 cal in the new year..
If you check out their site they have a prototype there,

Me, I can only hope they will be available with queen anne style hammers and with the stock rough and unfinished so I can personalize it.
For 700 yankee deneros not too bad!!


My pals 1777 from middlesex is a real solid good gun so I think it bodes well for this new arm!!

A second shot from a flintlock.....its like a dream come true!!

Any thoughts?
 
I'd never heard of these guys before. Pretty decent prices for a Brown Bess compared to Pedersoli. Who makes these guns? Are they from India? Are they decent quality and shootable?

Nevermind. I found their FAQ page.
 
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My favourite gun is a indian 1st mod bess I bought from loyalist as a kit...yes its my fav over my cartridge arms. , My pals 1777 from middlesex is a damn fine arm aswell....

Honestly my pedersoli bess doesnt even come close the basic quality of my loyalist.

Im thinking this double may really be something after you do some work on it.

The only thing that I dislike about it is the hammer design...which is a petty complaint at best.

Merry christmas!!!!!
 
Looks as if it could be a good starting point, as long as the locks are of basically sound design and construction. There is nothing like this on the market.
 
That thing is sooo ugly it would scare game away.

Here is a quote from another site about MVT and their Indian made guns, that I think is more than fair.

Quote- "I bought a 1756 Brown Bess from them recently. The quality of the gun is mediocre at best, but it is functional and the price is about half what a Pedersoli would cost and maybe 1/4 of a custom build. You don't get what you don't pay for. I researched these fairly thoroughly beforehand and got about what I expected and MVT seemed like a decent company to buy from.

If you buy from them, bear in mind that these are made in small Indian shops where western standards of manufacturing just don't exist, but these guns have a bit of a track record now and they don't appear to be unsafe.

Expect crude inletting, an overly shiny finish and triggers from hell."
 
beautiful2.jpg

Beautiful.jpg


Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, Me...I think Loyalist makes some of the best flintlocks I have ever had the pleasure to shoot.

I have yet bought any arms from middlesex, but some of the guys have and after you strip off the finish and then oil the stock and then tune the lock they are fantastic.

Im not a big fan of pedersoli anymore 'Ill leave it at that"

I think this new double after some work could be a jem....engrave the lock plates...refinish the stock, add a musket butplate ,queen anne hammers installed, and dull down the steel just imagine...
 
Unless it is something about the flint double that turns your crank, I would spend the money on a genuine antique double or single percussion shotgun. I would then have a shooter that fits well and was made slender and light. For the same price I could find an antique shotgun with cast off to the stock and regulated barrels, as well as a piece of history. Then I would never think of purchasing that (edit - THING) again.
 
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Yeah there is the slenderness issue in the lock area....I myself am not completely sold on the arm yet, though I very much like the idea of a double flintlock.

"I love flintlocks " I will wait until the 1st batch are out there and see what the owners say.
I figure after 1or 2 batches whatever bugs are present will be worked out.

Myself....I think its right pretty "except the hammers"

-Mr Smokepole I have to say I do apreciate your palaver! I never could respect a man who didnt speak his mind, and you do have some good points.

It will be interesting to see how these doubles measure up after they are released.
 
...why not build? You get what you want that way, what I'm getting at is when it comes to things this niche and neat, take matters into your own hands. :)

Won't cost you much if you stick with reasonable materials. Likely, can be done for the price of the Indian but in American black walnut, with American or English locks, quality rifled barrels, and any little touches or look your heart desires...

Here's mine so far in a new pic, not much has changed, about 60% done, locks are now near 100% inletted however. All the fine stuff and finishing is what takes the time... you do that anyway 'polishing up a turd' so to speak. No matter how much work goes in, that Indian double's never going to look right unfortunately in my opinion. Just not a pretty bird from my perspective, awkward thing, but that's just my opinion which means essentially zilch in the grand scheme of things!

And yes indeed... there's something very special about a flintlock double.

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Build one?

So its and awkward looking thing and probley will handle as well as it looks..I guess this can be fixed as some say with a little tlc but there is nothing else like this out there at the price you can get it for.
Now...building one! I personally would not mind taking on a project like this if it was available in a kit and was priced on par with our subject gun but I would have no idea where to start as far as what Ardent has undertaken! I am a fairly handy person but...!
Does anyone know of a kit?

Steve
 
Very well put Steve and if you take the middlesex as a put together kit and do some work on it you can likley come up with a double flint you can use.
What Ardent has taken on is a large job and you need a lot of time to do it but you get what you want when you are done. How are you going to regulate the point of impact of the barrels?
John
 
Hey John a good question that's easier than it seems, for simplicity just pulling a straight copy from my build thread:

Ardent said:
Dead simple, as they're straight octagons. When I'm joining the barrels and the underlug, they will be clamped to a true steel plate, and I'll leave the forward 18" of the barrels free initially incase adjustment does prove needed after test firing. If necessary, it's just a matter of shims in the barrel joint or individual barrel elevation adjustments before fixing the barrels permanently. I highly doubt for the ranges a .45 front stuffer is used at that will be required however, likely will be spot on as it stands, each barrel should print slightly to its side on the targets using the parallel octagons. For sight adjustment, the rear sight is made with a slight build up in the aft base after the dovetail that I'll file (or build to, but the plane looks high) for tuning elevation before fixing to the barrels. The rear sight blade is fully windage adjustable in its dovetail.
Click to expand...

As for time, it takes a lot, but less than you might think. I only spend an hour every second night or so at it, it moves along fast enough with nothing more than basic hand tools. In the end, you'll have a much, much higher quality product than the Indian as well, with enough attention to detail no reason it can't be the equal of true $5000 customs. Most of the price for them is for the hours spent at it, not the materials.
 
Using Middlesex parts

So.if no kit is available maybe you could see if middlesex would sell the barrels and hardware sans locks and stock and build from there? It would be less ambitous than Ardents project but within my reach (ha ha). You would not be able to regulate the barrels but it is a shotgun and it has sights so a little Kentucky windage..?

Cheers! Steve
 
There is a book out about building a flintlock double from a set of breech loading barrels.
The very slender, gracefull original double flintlock fowlers often empolyed a special breech that allows the locks to be placed closer together. The breeches where the touch holes are located are narrower than the barrels.
 
Smokepole said:
There is a book out about building a flintlock double from a set of breech loading barrels.
The very slender, gracefull original double flintlock fowlers often empolyed a special breech that allows the locks to be placed closer together. The breeches where the touch holes are located are narrower than the barrels.
Click to expand...

I considered shaving the barrels where the flash holes lay to pull the locks in tighter in mine, but came up with a different solution, angled flash holes. Lets the locks sit slightly under the barrels and a 1/4" tighter in per side, and doesn't compromise breech strength. Also sits the hammers lower for smoother lines, and a more classic African double look.
 
The Indian double would have a delivered cost close to C$1000. IF, and its a big IF, the parts are decent, it could be redone to present reasonably well. My biggest concern would be the locks. If they are not crisp, fast, surefire sparkers, the whole thing would be a waste of time.
While octagon barrelled double rifles are not common, it was not unusual for American makers to use two separately breeched barrels, each with its own tang. The barrels were not joined, they were inletted and pinned in as independent barrels. Each barrel had its own sights. If you can access Kindig, there are ones illustrated.
I have Brockway's book - anyone wanting to build a traditionally styled double shotgun should get a copy. Brockway used salvaged breechloading barrels, fitted with breechplugs. Barrels like this can often be had for very reasonable prices. There are quality matching locks available. I have a pair of barrels which I breeched up, and have proof tested. I cheated; instead of making a hook breech, I milled a slot in the plugs and top rib and fitted a tang to the barrels. The plugs are patent breech style, with reduced diameter powder chambers. They are barrel diameter for about 1". The toucholes are in the plugs, not in the barrels, of course. To remove the barrels for cleaning, it would be necessary to use a screwdriver and unscrew the tang screw. One of these days I will order a pair of locks. Total cost of parts, including quality locks, would be much less than the cost of one of the Indian doubles. I don't have any walnut thick enough, but would not be embarrassed to laminate two pieces together to get the width needed. In my cache of odds and ends are a pair of Charles Lancaster 14 bore (12ga. chamber) oval bore rifled barrels, in excellent condition. They could be used to make a superb deer rifle. Don't know if I will ever have the nerve to alter them, although the chance of ever finding a Lancaster gun they would fit is remote.
 
tiriaq said:
In my cache of odds and ends are a pair of Charles Lancaster 14 bore (12ga. chamber) oval bore rifled barrels, in excellent condition. .
Click to expand...

Does the top rib say Colindian by any chance? I have a 12 guage Lancaster oval bored Colindian which I shoot occasionally. It gets its name from India and the colonies and they appear to have been made both hammerless and with hammers, some like mine with rifle sights and others without a rear sight.

cheers Doug
 
Book title & author please

Smokepole said:
There is a book out about building a flintlock double from a set of breech loading barrels.
The very slender, gracefull original double flintlock fowlers often empolyed a special breech that allows the locks to be placed closer together. The breeches where the touch holes are located are narrower than the barrels.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about doing this just the other day! Could you please let me know the title and author of the book.

Cheers. Steve.
 
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