Milsurp - Go No Go

Thoax

Thoax

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Hey guys,

I am starting to get into mulsurp stuff and picked up two k98s and 3 different carcanos, I want to end up taking these to the rang to try them out but i want to make sure they are safe to use. I have looked around but i cant seem to find any gun smiths. I was told to pick up a set of go no go's and give those a try to see, my only thing is when i look them up i see alot of people saying its not worth it as they are mil surp and that they are made differently.

What would you guys recommend? This is all new to me.

Thanks
 
Thoax said:
Hey guys,

I am starting to get into mulsurp stuff and picked up two k98s and 3 different carcanos, I want to end up taking these to the rang to try them out but i want to make sure they are safe to use. I have looked around but i cant seem to find any gun smiths. I was told to pick up a set of go no go's and give those a try to see, my only thing is when i look them up i see alot of people saying its not worth it as they are mil surp and that they are made differently.

What would you guys recommend? This is all new to me.

Thanks
Click to expand...
The 98 Mauser system is about the toughest there is.
Post a couple pictures here, we do love our pictures.
You will have all sorts of help then.
The Carcanos are not as tough, but really can only about 1 of 3 possible cartridges...2 of which basically interchange.
 
Go-NOGO headspace gauges aren't exactly cheap.

You could fire one round and then measure the headspace of the fired case with inexpensive case headspace gauge kit.
 
If you want to get gauges, get FIELD gauges.
But... If you were to get SAAMI gauges, would SAAMI specs have anything to do with the gauging when the rifles were manufactured?
What I would do is shoot them and carefully inspect the cases, looking for incipient separations, etc.
 
I have an Israeli k98 and the bolt was sticking after firing. I bought some gauges and turns out the bolt had very excessive headspace. Swapped the bolt and problem solved.

The gauges are expensive. Tiriaq has the right idea. Shoot the rifles and if you have bolt sticking or issues with the cases get some gauges.
 
"safe to use" - for sure headspace can be an issue - a full set includes a GO, a NOGO and a FIELD gauge - I think most military armourers carried a FIELD gauge - if the bolt closed on that, the headspace was set too long in that rifle - since it was accepting standard issue ammo, it was not too short. As mentioned above - various countries built to different standards than are available by SAAMI - which is what you will buy today - for example, the regimental Armourer's gauges used at Carl Gustaf Armoury in Sweden to make m96 rifles in 6.5x55 are LONGER than SAAMI counterparts - but, there might be some merit to have a SAAMI compliant chamber, if you are using SAAMI compliant ammo.

But there is lots more than "headspace" that goes into "safe to fire" - the rifle could have been quietly rusting in someone's basement for 40 years and no longer is to dimension or spec, or the receiver might be cracked - could be the bolt lugs are no longer seated on their seats - rust or wear. Maybe a bug has laid an egg within the bore and the bore is plugged or partially plugged. You won't know until you clean it up and check. Maybe the wood stock has dried out or taken on water - it is not going to handle the recoil without cracking or breaking. Nothing to do with "headspace" - but not necessarily "safe". You can check 22 rifles and they are probably fine - #23 is not, though - needs "fussing" - and I will suggest that happens mostly because Bubba or someone related was at it - recently or 50 years ago. As I understand it - militaries like Sweden, Germany, U.K., USA had annual tear down, gauging and service to their rifles when in use - then they got nothing from civilian owners over the past 70 (?) years.
 
Sort of an aside - during WWI - the USA made and used many Model of 1917 Enfield rifles - some today will call those a "P17" - after hostilities finished, they were checked out and stored - often under inadequate conditions - politics, etc. got various arsenals in many USA states to "re-build" those WWI rifles at outbreak of WWII - I have a "P17" that is stamped or "branded" as having been rebuilt at Augusta (Georgia) Arsenal - an Eddystone stamped (WWI) receiver, a High Standard (WWII) barrel and various maker marks and no marks for the 80 odd small parts in that rifle. Britain did similar with their WWI P14 rifles - rebuilt them for WWII - was a Scotland contractor - H. Morris - who made many thousands of replacement wood stocks for those P14 rifles - I do not know if any metal bits were made during WWII by English contractors - as was done in USA for their "P17" rifles.
 
OP, headspace is a bugaboo which is mostly worried about by newbies.

Is it important? Yes, of course it is, however in most cases, which occur it's with mismatched bolts.

Now, the question is whether or not the rifle will be safe to shoot. The answer, 99.999% of the time is YES.

Look inside the receiver of your rifle, at the lug recesses, where the bolt lugs sit when they're in the "fire" position. There is a slight possibility there may be a condition known as "set back"

Set back is caused by such things as extremely hot loaded ammo, or maybe a restriction in the bore causing over pressure and forcing the lugs against the faces of the recesses hard enough to cause slight dents. This condition has to be extreme to cause safety issues or misfire issues.

The best way to check for this is with a "metal hook" which you can run over the faces and feel for the ridges created.

Some mismatched bolts will have headspace measurements which are out of spec, if you handload, keep the cartridges from each rifle with the rifle they're fired in and neck resize only. No more headspace issues as the case will fireform to the dimensions of each rifle.

Tiriaq is telling you something, if you are concerned, get a field gauge.

When I first started working on these rifles, close to sixty years ago, there was a set of field gauges on the bench, where we inspected the rifles after coming into the store. The very odd one would be allow the bolt to close on the field gauge. None of them, to my knowledge, would have been unsafe to use with issue ammunition, loaded too the standards of the era they were built.
 
Thoax: As is being suggested by all, these milsurps are inherently safe, being over-engineered. However, there is truly a lot of junk out there and I've come across more than the odd one that I didn't feel comfortable shooting. I would suggest taking it slowly and doing a detailed check on one at a time. Strip it and look at the metal from one end to the other for anything that doesn't look right. Inspect the bore carefully- you can get a decent bore camera these days for very little money. Strip the bolt and inspect it carefully. If you find anything that concerns you try to take clear photos and post them here. Much of your concern might easily be allayed if the rifles appear to be original and matching and not fooled with. And, if you're new to milsurps, probably the most valuable tool you can buy is a good disassembly manual. There are good ones available that have good photos and cover most types you're likely to ever own. Don't be in a big rush to get to the range- shooting these old pieces is only worthwhile if the rifle is functioning well and wants to group.

milsurpo
 
Thanks guys for all the info and help, On the weekend ill take some pics and also go over the guys and see if i see anything that stick out.

Thanks again
 
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