Minie bore leading potential?

Canuck Bob

Canuck Bob

Regular
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
13   0   0
It is interesting that muzzleloading reports on Minie/Burton style bullets doesn't often discuss leading. I've acquired a repro P61 Enfield and interested in reports of success and failure from dealing with leading in a big bore muzzleloader?

Also which liquid lead remover works best for cast bullet mishaps?
 
Bob,

I was surprised and disappointed to find that the soft lead balls that I was flinging out of my Ruger Old Army leaded the barrel after about 80 shots.

The accuracy went from 'top notch' to 'not on the paper'!

It was easily removed with a brass screen scraper (Lewis lead remover).

The liquid lead remover that you heard about is mercury - and so hard to get nowadays that I gave up. Electricians that replace old thermostats were rumoured to have it, but I never found any.

Ed's red bore solvent will dig under the powder fouling and make the bore shiny, but mechanical removal of the lead seems to work the best. One following the other should fix up any accumulated sludge in the bore.The Lewis system could be copied in a large enough size to scour the bore of your rifle - with a bit of fabrication. The design is simple enough. They may even have one in your size - I used a shotgun cleaning rod to make a few passes down my Marlin 1894 bore when too hot 45LC loads with little lube hurt the accuracy.


Stewbud
 
Canuck Bob said:
It is interesting that muzzleloading reports on Minie/Burton style bullets doesn't often discuss leading. I've acquired a repro P61 Enfield and interested in reports of success and failure from dealing with leading in a big bore muzzleloader?

Also which liquid lead remover works best for cast bullet mishaps?
Click to expand...

All forms of Pattern 53 (and related) rifle cartridges had the bullet wrapped in paper (with lubricant). I would imagine that limits leading to a large degree. The derivative Snider used a naked minie bullet with lube of pure beeswax held both in grooves and, in a very thin layer, on the surface of the bullet between the grooves. It traditionally had no serious fouling problems and, in tests, maintained accuracy for hundreds of shots with no cleaning. I use pure beeswax in loading minie's for Snider and have had no issues with leading after a couple of hundred shots in one rifle. In fact, during one shooting session, the fouling looks the same after 40 shots as it does after 2 and cleanup is fast and easy. Looking down the bore after a few shots the wax appears to have formed a glaze over the entire bore. If you go with paper cartridges similar to the originals you'll probably have no problems. Check out "British Muzzleloaders" videos on the subject on Youtube.

milsurpo
 
Thanks guys, over the winter I'm converting my guns to cast wherever possible. The lead removers asked about are commercial products from Shooters Choice or Sharp Shooter Wipe Out Liquid lead removers.

The BritishMuzzleloader site convinced me to get an Enfield repro and his vids will likely lead to attempting Enfield Pritchett bullet paper cartridges some day. The tip on straight beeswax is encouraging. I do have a grooved Lee Minie mold that is shot US Civil War style with grease and no paper. I haven't cast with it but the box says .575 and is reported to possibly be too small for a Parker Hale barrel, time will tell. The Snider results are very encouraging.
 
The US used the Burton style naked grooved bullet and in the Civil War adopted the Williams clean out bullet. This bullet had zinc discs on it and was meant to expand and scour and clean the bore. They were packed in with regular bullets in the 10 round packs.
 
The technology of 19th century military rifles is impressive. Learning the history is as much fun as shooting the guns. The British evolution from smoothbore flintlocks to the true hybrid Snyder breech loading modification ending in the Lee Metford/Enfield bolt action smokeless ammo before 1900 is quite extraordinary.

green, when you say naked grooved bullet is it that without lube or meaning without patch? Also that is the first reference for the Williams bullet I've run into, thanks. The net is full of references for tallow-beeswax blends.
 
The US bullet was grooved and was loaded w/o paper patch. The sample in my collection seems to be w/o lube. Other sources say they were lubed. Lyman 575213OS is a close copy of the US M1855 Burton's Improved Minie Ball.
 
Canuck Bob said:
It is interesting that muzzleloading reports on Minie/Burton style bullets doesn't often discuss leading. I've acquired a repro P61 Enfield and interested in reports of success and failure from dealing with leading in a big bore muzzleloader?

Also which liquid lead remover works best for cast bullet mishaps?
Click to expand...

Velocities are too low to cause leading, simple as that.

Leading is caused by driving the lead or lead alloy too fast for the hardness, and by gas cutting from combustion gas passing the bullet. The purpose of lubing Minies isn't to prevent leading, it's to keep powder fouling soft so you can keep shooting. Without it, powder fouling builds up and gets hard.

I have never had to use lead remover in 25 years of shooting BP with pure lead projectiles.
 
The OP asked about leading in Muzzleloaders but most of the reply's are about removing lead from cartridge guns with an open bore at both ends, I would think that removing lead from a front stuffer would be a very tedious operation without removing the breech plug ( not easy to do in most cases). If there is leading in the land and it is "scraped loose" how would you get the lead totally out once it is bashed up against the breech block face...I can see why the OP is looking for liquid answer to the problem....my humble suggestion would be to totally patch or copiously lube anything shot from a muzzle-gun to completely remove the chance of any leading.
 
flashman2 said:
Velocities are too low to cause leading, simple as that.

Leading is caused by driving the lead or lead alloy too fast for the hardness, and by gas cutting from combustion gas passing the bullet. The purpose of lubing Minies isn't to prevent leading, it's to keep powder fouling soft so you can keep shooting. Without it, powder fouling builds up and gets hard.

I have never had to use lead remover in 25 years of shooting BP with pure lead projectiles.
Click to expand...

All good advice right there.
 
Thanks again, I've decided to drop these lead removers from any use. No-one raves about them and it seems wrong to add another toxic chemical to the gun room shelf of limited use. If necessary the all copper chore boy mechanical method will be used, specially in smokeless centerfire cast rifles. I've settled on water and Balistol for my BP rifles and Hoppe's for an occasional added punch.
 
I would avoid anything petroleum based that doesn't emulsify like Ballistol. BP fouling and oil = sludge. None of my BP rifles have ever had anything petro based down their bores.
There should be no need for any added punch; a properly cleaned BP barrel is spotless after you're done, if there's any buildup of anything you're doing it wrong. BP fouling just takes lots of hot water and a few patches. It's easier to clean than a smokeless rifle with copper fouling. Make sure you oil immediately after the hot water to avoid flash rusting. Ballistol is a good choice for an all in one product. Avoid anything else that's petroleum based.
 
This bore has had a diet of minies, maxis and PRB. Couldn't tell you the round count but probably around 1000?

Never been cleaned with anything except Track's bore cleaner, patches and bore brushes and Wonder Lube to oil.

 
Last edited:
Canuck Bob said:
Thanks Flashman, I'll keep all petroleum products clear of my BP guns.
Click to expand...

Oil would be ok externally on the barrel and lock, it's just in the bore. I heated up the barrel and lock and applied a coat of melted beeswax externally, still going strong after a year, but it's a browned gun, not blued. You can't go wrong just using ballistol for everything on your rifle though from the wood to the metal. It's a good choice. Casting is another adventure unto itself, as much fun as the shooting.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom