Minimum Energy
- Thread starter Mumptia
- Start date
Kinetic energy is a marketing tool. There are too many variables to go by a set minimum. For example, archery equipment usually produces well under 100 ft-lbs of energy, yet kills very well. Obviously that example is extreme, and just illustrative. And "any big game" is too broad a statement as well. A Sitka Blacktail or a Couse deer are quite different than an Elk or Mountain Goat.
Numbers and statements like these are only good for armchair hunting, IMO.
Numbers and statements like these are only good for armchair hunting, IMO.
energy isnt as important as
- bullet placement
- bullet construction ~ impact velocity
that being said, for deer I'd want between 1000-1200 ft-lbs, and more moose/bear/elk : closer to 2000 ft-lbs @ impact
these numbers are not hard and fast
- bullet placement
- bullet construction ~ impact velocity
that being said, for deer I'd want between 1000-1200 ft-lbs, and more moose/bear/elk : closer to 2000 ft-lbs @ impact
these numbers are not hard and fast
A well contructed bullet designed for the game your hunting placed in the right spot is more deadly than huge amounts of energy in the leg or in the tree next the animal, shoot the most rifle your comfortable with (you owe it to the game animal) and more inportantly practice with the shoosen rifle and caliber and test bullets to match the game and hunting style.
- Location
- Vancouver Island BC
minimum enegy
.338 mag with 225 grain Nosler Partition over 73 grains of IMR 4831 and don't worry about the minimum.
.338 mag with 225 grain Nosler Partition over 73 grains of IMR 4831 and don't worry about the minimum.
beretta boy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Orillia, Ontario
Just enough energy to get out out of the bunk at camp and go lookin' for
something worthwhile to shoot !
The 30 MI carbine load with it's 110 gr. bullet delivers 967 ft/lbs. at the muzzle. If you want to go piss off Grizz by shootin' at him with that cause you read it somewhere, go to it. We'll remember you fondly, and up the ante for minimum energy a bit more.
something worthwhile to shoot !
The 30 MI carbine load with it's 110 gr. bullet delivers 967 ft/lbs. at the muzzle. If you want to go piss off Grizz by shootin' at him with that cause you read it somewhere, go to it. We'll remember you fondly, and up the ante for minimum energy a bit more.
beretta boy said:
I got a young blackie rug here in my basement that was shot with a M1 carbine. 3 of the rounds didnt make it inside of the ribs on it with 110 gr HP's
But it was shot in defense rather than hunted over 10 years ago.
Needless to say, an M1 carbine isnt even a black bear defense gun
- Location
- Yellowknife, NWT
I think the M1 comments are less than helpful....no one mentioned muzzle energy. No need to treat a poster like he's stupid for asking a serious question. I have seen articles written that say 900 ft-lbs impact energy for deer, 1200 for elk/moose as a rule of thumb. Actually, I think it's a fair starting place. I know that I consider the downrange kinetic energy of bullets, as well as their construction, and the range I expect to be maximum, when matching cartridges to game.
A .223 firing a 50gr bullet at 3300fps has ~925ft-lbs of energy at 100 yards
A .45 Colt - 300gr bullet at 1500 fps has ~1016ft-lbs of energy at 100 yards
I'd take the .45 Colt with a hard cast lead bullet over the .223 for big game, even though the energy is very similar. The .45 Colt has 52.93 lb-ft/s of momentum, the .223 has only 20.09 lb-ft/s!
A .45 Colt - 300gr bullet at 1500 fps has ~1016ft-lbs of energy at 100 yards
I'd take the .45 Colt with a hard cast lead bullet over the .223 for big game, even though the energy is very similar. The .45 Colt has 52.93 lb-ft/s of momentum, the .223 has only 20.09 lb-ft/s!
I think that the M1 comments are brilliant.... Muzzle energy is directly related to energy downrange.... and we all know that Mumps is Intellectually Challenged and never asked a serious question in his lifeKilo Charlie said:
Seriously energy is relevent, but only for general comparison, I agree with others here that consider bullet construction, calibre, velocity and placement as the definitive factors in measuring killing ability.
Kilo Charlie said:
Go re read what everyone is posting, no one is hacking on anyone.
Mump is kind of a regular here, and I dont see any stabs at him...
See, what better comparison do you have for energy other than a black bear that took three slugs from an M1 carbine inside of 50 yards that didnt enter the ribcage, and three that did enter the body/head.
500 ft lbs of energy wont kill a 2.5 year old bear unless you dump a clip on it. Do you have better experience than that?
Personally, I found the grizzly comment funny as hell, and Im sure that most everyone else did too...
I think its because there havent been any good Grizzly defense threads lately
beretta boy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Orillia, Ontario
Mumps:
I apologize from the HEART of MY BOTTOM if I offended you in any way !
Seriously, IMHO, way too much crap gets written about "minimum" this, "maximum" that and "what's the best" for ... that way, gun writters have always got something to write about (and get paid for ! )
So what do you think's better for deer the .270 or 30-06 ??? ( NO, I don't want to know the kazillion opinions on that 80-odd year old debate, but see what I mean ? )
Who was it said " Use Enough Gun " ...
I apologize from the HEART of MY BOTTOM if I offended you in any way !
Seriously, IMHO, way too much crap gets written about "minimum" this, "maximum" that and "what's the best" for ... that way, gun writters have always got something to write about (and get paid for ! )
So what do you think's better for deer the .270 or 30-06 ??? ( NO, I don't want to know the kazillion opinions on that 80-odd year old debate, but see what I mean ? )
Who was it said " Use Enough Gun " ...
Didn't know you guys cared
Ya know, like a lot of you, I read so much during the winter about ballistics and bullets, hunting and everything else and have so little time to go out and actually try everything, its easier if I ask here.
I know bullet placement and bullet quality and, and..... is all important.
The energy is an important factor if you are going to break bone when you hit a rib.
I was wondering about personal preferences. That's it.
Feel free to #### on the thread
Ya know, like a lot of you, I read so much during the winter about ballistics and bullets, hunting and everything else and have so little time to go out and actually try everything, its easier if I ask here.
I know bullet placement and bullet quality and, and..... is all important.
The energy is an important factor if you are going to break bone when you hit a rib.
I was wondering about personal preferences. That's it.
Feel free to #### on the thread
A professional African big game hunter named Taylor proposed a formula he called knock out value, in which a cartridge was assessed by an equal combination of the product of bullet weight, velocity and calibre. Whether this formula holds up exactly or not, as mentioned earlier, all other things being equal, a bigger calibre makes a difference, and according to Taylor, it can have advantage despite carrying less energy. On top of that, bullet construction and velocity would have a relationship, as below a certain velocity a bullet that is intended to expand, won't.
Energy
These posts seem a bit like the "How long is a piece of string?" kinds of questions because there are so many right answers. What's difficult is coming up with a reasonable rationale for the collection of variables we choose to use in specified locations. (Snore...zzzz, where was I?)
I love askin' 'em myself this time of year!
These posts seem a bit like the "How long is a piece of string?" kinds of questions because there are so many right answers. What's difficult is coming up with a reasonable rationale for the collection of variables we choose to use in specified locations. (Snore...zzzz, where was I?)
I love askin' 'em myself this time of year!
