Model 1894 30.30 Loads

mattyboylewis

mattyboylewis

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Oliver, BC
Alright, I know there is a bunch of you out there that can help with a small problem that I am having.

I have an 1894 30.30 saddle with the original flip sight and sight blade. My problem at this time is that Modern ammunition, or modern loads for that matter are far to hot for accurate aiming. At 100yards with conventional ammunition (170gr Wins or 150 Feds) The rifle shoots la few feet high on the lowest sight setting. Aiming 3 feet lower at a target at 100yards is doable, however I wish to use the rifle as a deer harvesting rifle this fall, I don't want to 'guesstimate' on a potential kill shot and possible wound an animal.
I guess what I am looking for is a load that would be obviously slower, but still maintain accuracy. The solution to the problem would be to swap out the sights, however it is a family heirloom that I wish to keep in its original state.
I do handload but I figured rather than start and just start reducing loads, maybe another CGN'er has experienced this and could point me in the right direction of producing the loads from when the rifle was manufactured (earlier part of the 1900's) with conventional powders and readily available bullets. I do not have the ability to make my own lead projectiles, so any recomendations would be greatly appreciated by utilizing commercially available bullets. (Doesn't necessarily have to be jacketed projectiles either!) The 150 grain projectile is not the be all or end all for the rifle as I believe a heavier bullet may help me get the load velocity down and back on paper.
Any help with this would be greatly appreciated and I thank everyone in advance for their help to allow me to get this good old quality rifle back into the field--where it belongs.

Maybe someone could shed some light on original loads at the when the first 1894's were produced.

Matt
 
I've got an 1894 32 winchester special built in 1901 with a Marbles rear peep sight. They're really not that different, and it shoots modern, factory ammo just fine. The only way you're going to get that bullet down is to seriously decrease your speed/energy with a seriously reduced load.....man, 3 feet at 100 yards is a lot, and I'm not sure you're going to want to try taking a poke at a deer with it. You're on the right track with a heavier bullet. There's no reason why you couldn't try a 170 grain flat nose with a reduced target load using something like Unique powder. I'll see if I can come up with a starting load for you.....just have to find my cast bullet book....I know...no cast bullets....but you could use the same loads with jacketed ammo. Be right back.
 
I take it when you say the lowest setting the sight is laying flat? KD
(not up like in the pic)
1894sight.jpg
 
Don't try to rduce your load enough to make it shoot 3 feet lower at 100 yards. If you do, the speed will be on about a par with a pellet rifle.
The obvious solution is to install a higher front sight. Simple job.
 
Ok. factory loads in a 30-30 are shooting somewhere near the 2000fps mark.
Get yourself some 170 grain jacketed bullets and some Unique powder.
Start off with 7 grains. That's right around 1200fps with a max of 10.6 for 1568fps. That's what it's calling for in my cast bullet book. Keep something in mind. If you're dialing it in for 100 yards, it's still going to have one hell of an arc in between......so if you're shooting at something at 50 yards, you're going to have to compensate. The nice thing about Unique powder is that it goes off even with a lot of space left in the case. You could even try a little less than 7 grains and you shouldn't have anything wierd hapening and still have reliable ignition. I'm putting 16 grains in a 300 win mag case....never had a misfire.....and there's enough empty space left in the case to hold a barn dance.

Edit. And like Bruce -H4831 said...you're going to be working with low energy. If you do find a load that works, try it out on something more than paper before you go out hunting with it and see what damage it does.
 
Yeah thats a great idea. I will chrony the loads when I start hitting paper and see what I come up with. She may just be destined to be a safe queen. The replacement of the front sight was considered. . . But. . .
1200 fps would deem it not suitable for hunting. But I am going to try the unique with some 170's, thanks for the load data. I will let you know in the next week how I make out. Hopefully my local outfitter has some unique on hand. Although quite common, getting any powder in a smaller community can be difficult.
 
I have a 30-30 that was made in 1902 and it is dead on at 100 yards. I can't for the life of me see how the rifle could possibly have the correct front sight or the rear sight has been changed. If you want to keep the rear sight then the only option you have is to change the front sight which is cheap and easy to do, just keep the old one for the future. To drop a bullet 3' at 100 yards you would have to use a taller front sight.

If your sight radius is 16" (Distance between front and rear sights) then to move the bullet impact 1" at 100 yards you have to move the front sight up .004" for every inch of movement. So in you instance of 36" (3 feet) you would need to move the front sight up 36 X .004= 0.144"

So you need to add to the height of your front sight 0.144" . Since the Winchester 1894 and all model 94's have standard 3/8 dovetail you shouldn't have any problems finding a correct replacement. Just drift out the old front sight and put the new one in. There might be a little bit of fitting for the new front sight and if you don't feel like doing that then take it to a gunsmith to do.

Just to try the theory, take some 5 minute epoxy and put a drop on the front sight. You mix it up and play with the glue till it just starts to thicken and then put a big blob on top of the front sight and using white out or nail polish just make it visible when you look at it. You don't need much only about 1/5th of an inch on top and take it to the range and fire a shot off at 100 yards. You can easily take off the glue with just your fingers so be careful transporting. You wouldn't believe how many times I have done this at the range for people just to see where the gun is shooting and what sight they would need to change too.

You should be able to get a new correct front sight from Western Gun Parts in Edmonton. http://www.westerngunparts.com/
 
Something is very wrong here.
3' high just doesn't happen with a 30-30 otherwise. The difference in velocity between the original 160 grain load and today's loads isn't enough to justify three feet.

Examine the rifle closely. Look for anything that might make the rear sight not sit as low as possible.

It's possible that the sight, front or rear has been changed. It's also possible that the barrel has been changed to one with a different profile, and or dovetails cut in a different location, making the front and rear sights no longer compatible.

Lastly, out of curiosity, what kind of group are you getting ?
 
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