Modifying 30-06 for a surplus converted rifle

Tbolt

Tbolt

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Hi All

I may have a chance at getting an Argentinian M1909 Mauser rechambered to 30-06
The question I have is that the bore is larger than .308 most likely .311 maybe .312
Is there a brand of semi modular reloading dies where I could easily switch the expander from the .308 one to a .311 or .312 one in order to make 30-06 with i guess enfield bullets which should be more accurate than regular 30-06?
 
My way will be to obtain an expander die - same as the one for turning case neck..that will give you .309 about.
Easy to find. X Reload probably have that in stock, body die and neck turning expander.
Just resize with your regular 30-06 die, lube inside neck..use expander…clean and reload.

Other option: X Reload has a Lee .303 British expander but haven’t seen the body die for it.
K&M expendiron in .30 and body die in stock. I refer to XReload since you are in Montreal and Beloeil is not that far.

Another way will be to source a .308 expander ball to fit your resizing die. Might be harder to find.
No alteration to die..just swap the ball. But it might make pulling the ball through the neck difficult on the up stoke. The expander is less troublesome..and easy.

After all, you want to open the case neck to accept a bigger bullet, only a few thous. Nothing else.
No magic.
 
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I can not help specifically with the alteration that you propose - the 30-06 die set here and the 303 British set are different brands. I do have RCBS 7.65x53 dies which are same brand as the 30-06 dies - no reason that I can see why the expander (actually entire decapper rod) could not be swapped from 7.65x53 die into the 30-06 FLS die??

But, to answer your question - I am not aware of "one" "modular die" to purchase - but I think with two dies sets - 30-06 and one sized for the bullet - of the same brand - parts would interchange and maybe you can make that work. Is how I would attempt to do it. Whatever is used to seat that bullet needs to be a larger body case size than 30-06, so maybe a 30-06 seating die will work? or 8 mm-06? I just tried a .312" Hornady #3130 174 grain RN bullet into the 30-06 bullet seating die - goes all the way to the seating cup - not real sure if there is enough room for case neck though - I do not have any prepared 30-06 cases.

You would be trying to seat 0.004" larger diameter than "normal" bullets - so maybe would need to lose 0.004" by peeling case neck walls, or gain 0.004" by opening up that neck part of the seating die, or some combination of both. No idea which might be easier for you to do, or to have done. While you are at it, maybe want to open up that 30-06 sizing die neck a similar amount at the same time?

FYI - Wikipedia says the 7.65x53 uses a .313" bullet. I intend to use flat base .312" Hornady and Woodleigh in my 7.65x53's.
 
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Because I wanted to see what would happen, I just took a previously fired Lake City 1969 (crimped primer still in it) - and ran into that 7.65x53 sizing die, intending to open up that neck with the expander going INTO the case - on the ram's UP stroke. Did not touch it. Expander measures .310" on my calliper - measured in two places - same results. So for that expander to do anything, the 30-06 case would need to be re-sized.

With fingers, I could not push a .312" bullet into that neck. I then installed that 30-06 bullet seating die as per normal - set that .312" Hornady bullet on and ran it up - seemed to seat that .312" bullet just fine - see picture below. So for this seating die and this piece of Lake City brass, there was sufficient clearance for the case neck, with a .312" bullet. Perhaps that helps you?

Previously fired Lake City 69 30-06 - crimped military primer still in it - seated a .312" Hornady 174 grain #3130 bullet to crimp groove - no bullet crimping done.

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Summary - I think you would need to buy a 30-06 sizer and bullet seat die set. Then acquire a .309" or .310" or so expander - I do not know if those things are sold as separate things or where you would get them, or if you would have to buy a 303 British or 7.65x53 sizing die to get the expander. Or perhaps you have a friend that can do fussy and precise work on a lathe and he could make one. Or perhaps you could get aggressive with an inside chamfer and simply force a .312" bullet into a "normally" sized 30-06 neck? Swap out expanders on that 30-06 sizing die (or not) and go. You would get re-sized 30-06 cases, and should be able to seat .312" bullets in that RCBS 30-06 set - at least I just did so, for one case.

Because of the unusual amount of working that will do to the case neck - is likely worth it to figure out case neck annealing and do so regularily.
 
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Potashminer said:
Because I wanted to see what would happen, I just took a previously fired Lake City 1969 (crimped primer still in it) - and ran into that 7.65x53 sizing die, intending to open up that neck with the expander going INTO the case - on the ram's UP stroke. Did not touch it. Expander measures .310" on my calliper - measured in two places - same results. So for that expander to do anything, the 30-06 case would need to be re-sized.

With fingers, I could not push a .312" bullet into that neck. I then installed that 30-06 bullet seating die as per normal - set that .312" Hornady bullet on and ran it up - seemed to seat that .312" bullet just fine - see picture below. So for this seating die and this piece of Lake City brass, there was sufficient clearance for the case neck, with a .312" bullet. Perhaps that helps you?

Previously fired Lake City 69 30-06 - crimped military primer still in it - seated a .312" Hornady 174 grain #3130 bullet to crimp groove - no bullet crimping done.

View attachment 656804
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OP, don't change anything on your 30-06 sizing die. Leave it as is and load the .311 bullets the same as you would .311 bullets.

If you're loading boat tail bullets, the only person will know there is a .003 size larger bullet being used is yourself. If you're going to use a flat base bullet, make sure you have a nice smooth chamfer on the mouth of the case.

Back in the day, when Indian FALs could be had for $120, most of them had worn bores or .310-.312 bores. I reloaded thousands of Canadian made IVI cases with .311 diameter fmj 154 grain flat base bullets into, without any issues whatsoever, other than I had to be meticulous about chamfering off the primer crimp and the case mouth.

.003 is nothing to worry about if your rifle barrel does indeed have a chamber that has been modified by setting it back one thread and recutting the chamber for 30-06. If it has, you will also notice the magwell has had to be lengthened and the feed ramp cut out accordingly to accept the longer over all length cartridge.
 
Arctic said:
I have different thoughts as lots of guys loaded the .308's in their .303's with good accuracy as they will expand to fill the bore, so why make things complicated. My #1's shoot better with .308 bullets.
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What you've read but aren't passing on is that SOME 303 British bores are as tight as .309 diameter. Most are .311-.315+ diameter.

The Model 1909 and a couple of others that have been rechambered mostly have bores .311+, especiall if worn and will not shoot .308 diameter bullets well.

If you can find some of the old exposed lead core, base bullets then they MIGHT shoot well.

With modern bullets and their sealed bases, they don't obturate into the grooves as well as the old jacketed, exposed lead core bullets will
 
bearhunter said:
OP, don't change anything on your 30-06 sizing die. Leave it as is and load the .311 bullets the same as you would .311 bullets.

If you're loading boat tail bullets, the only person will know there is a .003 size larger bullet being used is yourself. If you're going to use a flat base bullet, make sure you have a nice smooth chamfer on the mouth of the case.

Back in the day, when Indian FALs could be had for $120, most of them had worn bores or .310-.312 bores. I reloaded thousands of Canadian made IVI cases with .311 diameter fmj 154 grain flat base bullets into, without any issues whatsoever, other than I had to be meticulous about chamfering off the primer crimp and the case mouth.

.003 is nothing to worry about if your rifle barrel does indeed have a chamber that has been modified by setting it back one thread and recutting the chamber for 30-06. If it has, you will also notice the magwell has had to be lengthened and the feed ramp cut out accordingly to accept the longer over all length cartridge.
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This!! Don't make it complicated. Just seat your .311 bullets in the 3006 sized case necks. They will have a little more tension but that's all. Going to other way, e .g. seating a .308 bullet in a .303 case, I just remove the expander button and size without it. Then seat a .308 bullet in the un-expanded neck. Works all the time for me and in my No4 shoots as good as with .311 bullets.
 
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bearhunter said:
OP, don't change anything on your 30-06 sizing die. Leave it as is and load the .311 bullets the same as you would .311 bullets.

If you're loading boat tail bullets, the only person will know there is a .003 size larger bullet being used is yourself. If you're going to use a flat base bullet, make sure you have a nice smooth chamfer on the mouth of the case.

Back in the day, when Indian FALs could be had for $120, most of them had worn bores or .310-.312 bores. I reloaded thousands of Canadian made IVI cases with .311 diameter fmj 154 grain flat base bullets into, without any issues whatsoever, other than I had to be meticulous about chamfering off the primer crimp and the case mouth.

.003 is nothing to worry about if your rifle barrel does indeed have a chamber that has been modified by setting it back one thread and recutting the chamber for 30-06. If it has, you will also notice the magwell has had to be lengthened and the feed ramp cut out accordingly to accept the longer over all length cartridge.
Click to expand...

RifleDude said:
This!! Don't make it complicated. Just seat your .311 bullets in the 3006 sized case necks. They will have a little more tension but that's all. Going to other way, e .g. seating a .308 bullet in a .303 case, I just remove the expander button and size without it. Then seat a .308 bullet in the un-expanded neck. Works all the time for me and in my No4 shoots as good as with .311 bullets.
Click to expand...

Exactly! Why do guys overthink this kind of stuff?

I have loaded and fired hundreds of .312 bullets in .308 barrels with very satisfactory results.

Using .308 bullets in rifles with .311 or larger works, but with marginal accuracy for hunting.

Ted
 
I used to load thousands of rounds of rifle ammo on my Dillon. I never used an expander die. I just sixed the case and neck down. Inserting the bullet expanded the neck and it was good and tight.

So load your bullet as per normal. Load whatever size bullet you want. It will make no difference. Unless you use ball powder. In that case, accuracy might improve a bit.
 
Why bother? Just get a decent M17: already in .30-06 and with a properly designed safety catch.
 
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