Mosin Nagant 91/30 Snipers - Original or rebuilds?

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Beadwindow

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Greetings,

I've noticed on Tradeex's site and a couple of other dealers here that they have gotten M91/30 Sniper rifles in stock, with the original scopes and serial numbers matching to the rifle. Are these rifles generally WW2 originals, post-war Soviet rebuilds into sniper configuration, or a more recent put-together by some entrepreneuring exporters?

If they are more recent rebuilds, are they using ex-snipers that were modified back to original 91/30 specs after the war or just any decent looking rifle they can find. How would they compare to the original snipers in terms of performance (which if I recall correctly were selected from the most accurate specimens). What ought to be the average price for an original sniper versus a rebuild in similar condition?

I've got a couple of Mosins that I've finally begun to take out shooting and really like them (the M38 I fired this weekend was really fun to play with). I might be in a situation where I can afford to purchase one of these snipers soon and want to know what is it that I'd be getting, especially considering that they are considerably more expensive than my typical milsurp purchase (thank heavens that I bought my Garand 13-14 years ago!). I obviously prefer originals over more recent put-togethers, though I don't mind rifles that have been FTR'd or otherwise arsenal refurbed by military depots.

With Regards,

Frank
 
From what I understand, the Soviets took M91/30 Snipers and removed the scopes after the war and refurbished the rifles to normal infantry specifications. The ones floating around for $600-800 are either ex snipers that have reproduction scopes and scope mounts put on them or regular infantry rifles that have been drilled and tapped.

I personally think $700 is way too much for a reproduction sniper but some people are willing to pay for it.
 
Nabs said:
I personally think $700 is way too much for a reproduction sniper but some people are willing to pay for it.
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x2. It's funny, a movie comes out (like Enemy at the Gates or Saving Private Ryan) and the price of certain milsurps goes through the roof. Same with video games like Modern Warfare 2 and the ww2 Call of Duty's.
 
I really wonder where you fellows are coming from. Why on earth would you want to take your collectors pieces to the range? I can see doing it to say you've shot the real thing but that's about all.
A decent scope will cost you twice as much as the repro rigs that are being offered. They are very good replicas by the way. They shoot very well and are about 1/4 the cost of the real thing.
If they were made up in North America, the cost would be prohibitive and there wouldn't be any here.

Those repros are appropriately priced, they shoot well and give you the same experience as shooting the real thing. The funny thing is that most of the parts on these rifles are made on original equipment. The rifles themselves are certainly real, even if they didn't start life as purpose built snipers.

As I've said before, you snooze (procrastinate) you lose. These rifles won't be around forever. They are a flash in the pan. When they're gone, there won't be anymore. The rifles themselves, not to mention the scopes and mounts are cost prohibitive to manufacture under present conditions.

If you just can't afford one, to bad, such is life. I really feel for you. If you can afford one, go for it, you won't be sorry.

Just think of all the boys and girls that passed up the AIA clones. Some models are completely unavailable and the ones that are left, are it. As far as North America is concerned anyway.

A friend of mine just contacted AIA about the L42 clone. AIA can't keep up with Australian demand. The 7.62x39 rifles may be available but Marstar isn't willing to bring them in to my knowledge.

I'm using the AIA rifles as a prime example of excellent workmanship that was just a little ahead of its time. Many cried at how expensive they were and are. They were and still are worth every penny. Don't get taken in by the BS stories that circulated about them when they were first brought in either. The stories are just that, BS.

Again, if you can afford one, buy one. You won't regret it. They shoot better than most people can hold.
 
Bearhunter

I was hemming and hawing over getting one of these Mosin snipers but after reading your post I am moving it up on my to buy list.

I got one of the AIAs and they are just like you say. Price was high but worth it.
 
Good for you Klaus enuff. Some of the comments made here really surprise me.

I made a lot of mistakes by passing on or selling some of the more desirable rifles and hand guns that I had the opportunity to own. Some times, it was because I just couldn't afford the piece and other times, family situations negated my efforts at accumulating certain pieces.

Now I know better and know better than to shoot up a pristine piece. Even collectors of fine art and jewelry, will have reproductions made up so as not to damage or cause deterioration of their collectible pieces. It is only common sense.

There are a few people on these boards, not just CGN, that have access to bins of original parts. Most of us don't. We can't shoot away a firearm, knowing that there is a free, gov't sponsored part, still in the original packaging, waiting for us to draw upon. What we have is it. That's the fact of the matter.

Collect the real McCoy and squirrel it away in a nice dark safe. Buy a repro and enjoy it as well as learning the history behind it.

Other good examples, Russian Capture Mausers. They are collectible. They are genuine and there refurbishment is part of their history. They were a lot cheaper when they first appeared. The price is going up steadily. There are many on the list. How many all matching Mauser Kar98 rifles in excellent condition do you see at the range these days. It just makes sense to shoot the less collectible stuff.
 
If you check web sites for the sniper protrayed in enemy at the Gates you will see him with a sniper rifle that does not have the PU scope as in the movie.
 
Just so you can understand my position, I'm not saying the 91/30 reproduction snipers are worthless. Like I said, some of them are ex-snipers that have been brought back and that is really something to behold. You are correct, Bearhunter, these rifles won't be around forever and I would be tempted to pick one up but it isn't on my milsurp priority list at the moment.

As you may know, I own a RC 98k and she is very special to me. Some collectors may frown that she is a mix master of parts but she is unique in that she has all early war parts that compliment her date of manufacture. The condition of all the parts leads me to believe she was captured relatively early in the campaign in Russia and reworked during war instead of post war as she does not bear the usual peening of marks or the capture "X" on her receiver. She is also the rifle that my grandfather would have used. I will be taking her to the range in a few weeks when time permits and will enjoy firing every round through her.

Its more a preferential taste than anything else. If someone were to come out with Gewehr 98s that had reproduction turret mounts and reproduction scopes, they could probably get away with $1000 + and I would be very interested in acquiring one but others may not. To each their own I guess.
 
If I am not mistaken, he would have used a PE at that stage of the war, correct?
TGC said:
If you check web sites for the sniper protrayed in enemy at the Gates you will see him with a sniper rifle that does not have the PU scope as in the movie.
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Nabs, most of the RC K98s weren't actually battlefield captures. They came from warehouses in countries that were over run. No, they weren't new rifles that were stored, but what ever they had that wasn't in service.

I've seen pictures of and talked to a few ex Soviet soldiers. They very seldom bothered to pick up the dropped rifles. That happened with the later clean up squads. I'm not saying the Soviets didn't use captured equipment, because they did.

I am saying the by the time the rifles were scavenged from the fields, they were in horrific condition. If they had been fired, the corrosive priming ruined the bores. Blood, mud, you name it did a lot of damage as well. It wasn't uncommon for thousands of weapons to be heaped in a field for a few years, until they got around to picking them up. It also wasn't uncommon for the weapons to be buried with the dead. Not in the graveyards of course but when they scraped them together and just pushed bodies, gear etc into a pit.

I'm glad you got such a nice specimen. Not all of them are great. All of them are steeped in history. I really like them.

I also really like the repro M91/30 snipers. That being said, I doubt that they rebuilt any ex snipers into repros. The ex sniper rifles all had the screws welded over and were refinished on the outside. The only way to tell them is to pull back the bolt and see the filled holes, from the inside. There should also be numbers on the left side of the barrels if they were ex sniper rifles. Haven't seen or heard of one on a repro yet.

From what I gather, removing the plugs is a real time consuming chore.

The Soviets didn't run their sniper rifles through any special tests for accuracy before they built them. They did check the accuracy after they were assembled though. They were produced in the thousands, more numerous than any other nation in the world. They just didn't have time.

On the MN site, there is an interview with a shop foreman in a Soviet arms plant. They had quotas to fill and just picked the rifles off the racks.

I can fully understand where you're coming from by the way. I'll bet you kick yourself later.
 
bearhunter said:
The only way to tell them is to pull back the bolt and see the filled holes, from the inside. There should also be numbers on the left side of the barrels if they were ex sniper rifles. Haven't seen or heard of one on a repro yet.
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The process of adding the numbers on the left hand edge of the barrels started partway through 1942, and only at Izhevesk. The Tula sniper rifles had stamps on both the left and right hand edge of the star stamp on the barrels. From memory I believe it was a "C' and then an "H". I could be wrong on the letters however.
 
Very interesting, bearhunter, that may very well explain the condition of my RC and how it almost looks like new. I took some time to categorize the WaA of the mis-matched parts and many came from the same manufacture and were on different rifles. I was hoping my Kar98k saw action but it would feel weird holding a rifle that was taken off the body of a dead soldier and re-issued.

One of the other reasons I haven't picked up a 91/30 sniper is that my gun cabinet is quite small and I don't have room for a second one. I guess I decided to prioritize what I put in there so some rifles or carbines never make it in. I would love to pick up a M48BO un-issued, same with a Brazilian 1908 but I just don't have the room. Your right, I will probably regret it later on but I guess thats the price we all have to pay in the end, right ?

I didn't know they simply picked rifles off the rack, scoped them out, then tested for accuracy. I was approaching the process with German manufacturing in mind :D where rifles that were found to be exceptionally accurate were scoped afterwards.

If you were referring to 7.62x54r.net, that is an excellent website. It taught me alot about my Finnish M91 and about Mosin Nagants in general that a few months ago I knew nothing about. I recommend it to anyone who owns a Mosin.
 
Arty Man, you're right. My point was to say that the snipers were marked in some way. My post was already way to long but thanks for the clarification.

Nabs, I'm not blaming you or putting you down. You have to go with the flow. It wasn't until my first wife decided to run off that I could really get set up properly or fund my hobby.

Like you, I was in and out of certain types and only sparingly kept the ones that interested me most. It's the way life is. Some have money, time and space. Others, not so lucky. When it came to family, they always came first. Nothing has changed, even with my extended family. If my hobby was getting in the way of sustenance or other needs for a comfortable life, I would choose family, with no regrets.

If the little woman were to tell me "I don't like guns. It's either them or me." I would tell her not to let the door hit her on the as= on her way out.

That's how it is.
 
Thanks for all of the comments to my original post.

I also enjoy my RC Mauser and appreciate the comments about the Mosin snipers. Funny enough, I do recall when I was a kid seeing the Mosin snipers selling at LeBaron for $399 or $499, brought in by Century IIRC. At first I thought that these might have been the same rifles adjusted for inflation, but I'm sure that there's Americans who'd pay over a thousand for an original nowadays.

Perhaps I ought not to encourage competition, lol, but one can get an eight gun cabinet at LeBaron for less than the cost of a regular Mosin or crate of 7.62x39. On the other hand, one could really get carried away buying more guns than one can shoot.

I'll think about getting one of these in the next several weeks. I'm also interested in the AIA Enfield, which won't be available for much longer. For those of you who might own both, how do they compare? I hope I can put aside Norc M14s for a bit without losing any body parts!

Regards,

Frank
 
They are mostly all reproduction. An original PU scope will go for ALOT more then $800 and thats not including the 91/30 that its on!

I paid about $600 for my 43 91/30 with repro PU on it. (including a couple hundred surplus rounds)

Even tho its a repro scope it still feels fantastic. Very happy with it!

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by the way i have a original mauser with all the matching number ,the first time add the rifle in my hand the rifle add never seen a bullet pass tru it, and now it's a regular shooter and hunting rifle,it shoot cast all day at the range and it's pretty mint in condision bang! bang! i shoot lead in all my mil surp guns
 
Hi Guys,

Thanks for all of your comments. I spoke to Anthony at Tradeex and he told me that the rifles were repro snipers, with new production scopes that are made in Russia.

I'll chew on the idea of getting one in the near future, though I'm also awfully tempted by the AIA Enfield. It might be time to clear some space in the collection.....
 
Beadwindow

I was lucky enough to get one of the AIA M10 B3s that Marstar brought in. I like it a lot, it is supposed to be the same action as the other models just a different barrel on it. If I hadn't got it I would have got the full wood military repro. The target model is really popular (and accurate) and seems to sell out quicker.

I don't think you will be disappointed with these rifles. I feel your pain, always hard to decide what to get or get rid of.....
 
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