Mosin Nagant Marks...

A

angrygopher

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WMU203, Alberta (YCT)
I would appreciate if someone could help me interpret the marks on a Mosin Nagant that was given to me for Christmas.
 

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angrygopher said:
Thanks, I was pretty sure that it had been repaired at some point because the magazine and bolt numbers didn't match the barrel and butt plate.
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Its a great rifle to shoot and hunt with. Bullet is enough to take down most animals we have here. Mosins may be some of the last surplus rifles that we can collect in Canada. Shoot and enjoy.
 
gewehr76 said:
izhevsk factory 1942/52? Mosin. does it have MO stamped on receiver?. Mismatched/ force matched rifle. This type of Christmas beats trousers any time.
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I think the info is right on the first receiver photo but that pic is too darned small for any reasonable person to make sense of. I'll try to share a better photo later.

ETA, There is a very badly made stamping that looks like MO. I'm curious, does the 1942/52 mark mean the rifle was built in 1942 and then rebuilt in '52?
 
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angrygopher said:
I think the info is right on the first receiver photo but that pic is too darned small for any reasonable person to make sense of. I'll try to share a better photo later.

ETA, There is a very badly made stamping that looks like MO. I'm curious, does the 1942/52 mark mean the rifle was built in 1942 and then rebuilt in '52?
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yes picture is too small to see what's on it. Rifle was built in 42, but they may have replaced some stuff on it in 1952 and applied MO stamp.
There are many theories on MO markings, the latest on MO meaning may be is Modernizirovanoe Oruzhie. Which means Modernized Weapon. Thus the additional stamp of 52 or sometimes earlier dates. It may have been refurbished later on after its withdrawn from service, but who knows.
 
Quote Originally Posted by angrygopher View Post
I think the info is right on the first receiver photo but that pic is too darned small for any reasonable person to make sense of. I'll try to share a better photo later.
ETA, There is a very badly made stamping that looks like MO. I'm curious, does the 1942/52 mark mean the rifle was built in 1942 and then rebuilt in '52?
Click to expand...

gewehr76 said:
yes picture is too small to see what's on it. Rifle was built in 42, but they may have replaced some stuff on it in 1952 and applied MO stamp.
There are many theories on MO markings, the latest on MO meaning may be is Modernizirovanoe Oruzhie. Which means Modernized Weapon. Thus the additional stamp of 52 or sometimes earlier dates. It may have been refurbished later on after its withdrawn from service, but who knows.
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No, you are incorrect.

According to http://7.62x54r.net/:
"MO is known to be the Russian abbreviation for "Ministerstvo Oborony", or Ministry of Defense. The Defense Ministry was established on March 15th, 1953 in a merger of the Military and Naval Ministries (Voennoe Ministerstvo, Voenno-Morskoe Ministerstvo, "BM" and "BMM"). The numbers are thought to represent dates because of their placement and the fact that they are always larger than the previous date. However, all the known dates are between 1942 and 1953 when there was no MO except for the last nine and a half months of 1953. There are a few known firearms with double dates that lack the MO mark, but they are the rare exception. Likewise, few MO marked firearms without a second date have been reported. There is an obvious relationship between the date and MO marks yet just as obvious a conflict with the establishment of the MO and the dates.Based on information from sources in the former Soviet Union the MO marked firearms were used by the Defense Ministry Militarized Security force, or "Voenizirovannaya Ohrana MO", abbreviated VOHR MO. Those are not per se troops, but security guards employed by the MO. They wore military uniforms with special insignia of position (not rank insignia) and were separate from the army. These units were used to guard various MO facilities.
It is possible that the date markings were placed on the firearms at the time of transfer from the army proper to the security force of some forerunner of the MO. These marks may also be unrelated to the MO mark. The MO mark itself is thought to have been placed on the firearms after March 15th, 1953, either at the time of transfer from regular army stocks or to mark all VOHR firearms. The practice of applying the MO mark probably ended before 1959 as few M1891/59 Mosins are known to have the MO mark. However, only a small percentage of the rifles in Russian arsenals have been imported to the US so the statistical sample is small. These theories have not been confirmed and are being researched at this time.
 
Please refrain from stating, correct or incorrect, as no one knows what that MO really means for sure. I said it in bold that there is many theories on MO markings. quote from 7.62x54r site is so old and its been discussed to point that Ministerstvo Oborony has nothing to do with these markings.



05RAV said:
No, you are incorrect.

According to http://7.62x54r.net/:
"MO is known to be the Russian abbreviation for "Ministerstvo Oborony", or Ministry of Defense. The Defense Ministry was established on March 15th, 1953 in a merger of the Military and Naval Ministries (Voennoe Ministerstvo, Voenno-Morskoe Ministerstvo, "BM" and "BMM"). The numbers are thought to represent dates because of their placement and the fact that they are always larger than the previous date. However, all the known dates are between 1942 and 1953 when there was no MO except for the last nine and a half months of 1953. There are a few known firearms with double dates that lack the MO mark, but they are the rare exception. Likewise, few MO marked firearms without a second date have been reported. There is an obvious relationship between the date and MO marks yet just as obvious a conflict with the establishment of the MO and the dates.Based on information from sources in the former Soviet Union the MO marked firearms were used by the Defense Ministry Militarized Security force, or "Voenizirovannaya Ohrana MO", abbreviated VOHR MO. Those are not per se troops, but security guards employed by the MO. They wore military uniforms with special insignia of position (not rank insignia) and were separate from the army. These units were used to guard various MO facilities.
It is possible that the date markings were placed on the firearms at the time of transfer from the army proper to the security force of some forerunner of the MO. These marks may also be unrelated to the MO mark. The MO mark itself is thought to have been placed on the firearms after March 15th, 1953, either at the time of transfer from regular army stocks or to mark all VOHR firearms. The practice of applying the MO mark probably ended before 1959 as few M1891/59 Mosins are known to have the MO mark. However, only a small percentage of the rifles in Russian arsenals have been imported to the US so the statistical sample is small. These theories have not been confirmed and are being researched at this time.
Click to expand...

gewehr76 said:
yes picture is too small to see what's on it. Rifle was built in 42, but they may have replaced some stuff on it in 1952 and applied MO stamp.
There are many theories on MO markings, the latest on MO meaning may be is Modernizirovanoe Oruzhie. Which means Modernized Weapon. Thus the additional stamp of 52 or sometimes earlier dates. It may have been refurbished later on after its withdrawn from service, but who knows.
Click to expand...
 
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