Mosin Nagant/Mauser
- Thread starter Rubikahn
- Start date
Careful.... 
The K98k's are all marked "forced match" so they sound like RC's....
So, they're not likely going to be WaA marked and highly collectible...
Still, if you get through the pile and find one in good condition, that's not a bad price at all .....
Regards,
Badger
The K98k's are all marked "forced match" so they sound like RC's....
So, they're not likely going to be WaA marked and highly collectible...
Still, if you get through the pile and find one in good condition, that's not a bad price at all .....
Regards,
Badger
Cocked&Locked
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S. Ontario
BadgerDog said:Careful....
The K98k's are all marked "forced match" so they sound like RC's....
So, they're not likely going to be WaA marked and highly collectible...
Still, if you get through the pile and find one in good condition, that's not a bad price at all .....
Regards,
Badger
Should still be nice shooter though, right? Not everyone want's a collectable, some of us just like to shoot em!
Cocked&Locked said:
That's the theory, but they're all different and will perform with varying degrees of accuracy. If you just want a plinker, then it doesn't matter, but if you want to compete in some of the old milsurp competitions, you'd want to try and get one that is not too shot out....
At $399, at least you can get your money out of her when the boredom sets in, which is usually what happens after a few trips to the range ...
I like the collectibles because when I get to that boredom stage, I can still sit and watch it go up average of 15% per year (historical performance), which is better than I get from my stock portfolio.
Regards,
Badger
BadgerDog said:I like the collectibles because when I get to that boredom stage, I can still sit and watch it go up average of 15% per year (historical performance), which is better than I get from my stock portfolio.
Tell me about it! I've had to sell of entire major collections at least twice now and re-invest a portion of the proceeds in a new one b/c rifles I didn't pay alot for grew in value too much to just watch them sit
I'm starting over now with uncommon mosins. In 10 years just watch what will have happened to the value of the rarer ones.
Other good investment ideas include:
Any inexpensive South American Mauser in nice shape, Swedes, and Swiss K series rifles (though personally they do nothing for me).
I wouldn't collect semiautos right now though. Their future is too in doubt to tie too much money up in them - just my opinion. I have a good many semis, but I'm not buying more for the time being.
BadgerDog said:Careful....
The K98k's are all marked "forced match" so they sound like RC's....
So, they're not likely going to be WaA marked and highly collectible...
Still, if you get through the pile and find one in good condition, that's not a bad price at all .....
Regards,
Badger
Original Markings are intact. No import markings.
- Location
- Downtown Vancouver, BC
My RC has original markings intact, but it's forced matched.
However, it's labelled as a Steyr 660, 1939...bit more rare I'm told.
However, it's labelled as a Steyr 660, 1939...bit more rare I'm told.
ilovepotatos said:
I have a nice one of those as well, Czech rebuild as opposed to an RC.
1939 660 Steyr K98k (Steyr-Daimler-Puchag, Steyr) ... click herehttp://imageevent.com/badgerdog/germanservicerifles/1939660steyrk98k
They are beautifully made, even if they aren't in original manufacturing state.
Regards,
Badger
OK, i admit, im a newbie in this area, what does forced marked mean? I love the look of the 98s, and plan on buying one at some point soon, not to collect, but just shoot the hell outta Im 1.5 hr away from epps, might take a cruise in the vette this weekend to take a peek. Any hints what to look for?
vettes
Im 1.5 hr away from epps, might take a cruise in the vette this weekend to take a peek. Any hints what to look for?vettes
BadgerDog said:Careful....
The K98k's are all marked "forced match" so they sound like RC's....
Regards,
Badger
Forced matched just means "Renumbered" which just means that at some point the rifle got non-original part(s) and that those parts were stamped with the rifle's serial number.
Presumably this happened in some official capacity at a government facility somewhere, but just as often I suspect it has been done by importers, foreign vendors, or even domestic owners that want to make sure the right bolt gets put back in the right rifle in their over-crowded gun room.
Sometimes it's well done with proper metal stamps, other times it's electropencil, paint, ink, acid-etching, engraving, and any other means you can imagine.
Everything I've read is that "official" refurbishment of Russian captured K98's began as early as the late 40's (1949 or so, generally to provide as foreign aid) and really got ramped up in the mid 60's. some poeple claim it ended in the mid-1970's, but I know for a fact that some importers (Mitchell's Mausers comes to mind) are still paying Ukrainian companies to rebuild K98k's to this very day, often crudely "matching" the rifles with stamps to be sold in the US as "collectible" Mausers.
My personal feeling on the subject is that once the "original" part has been changed out and renumbered, the rifle has already taken the value hit. Whether a rifle is mismatched or "renumbered" is irrelevant. "Renumbered Matching" is only a $10 stamp set away, but it's VERY difficult to fake the right font, strike, surface texture and finish of a factory original serialization. some exceptions are Lee Enfields that were electropencilled matching right from the factory over a suncorite finish. I consider that proper. But a Mosin Nagant with a stamped matching bolt missing its cyrillic serial number prefix on that bolt is forever a "renumbered rifle", not a factory matched piece. I pay accordingly.
Presumably this happened in some official capacity at a government facility somewhere, but just as often I suspect it has been done by importers, foreign vendors, or even domestic owners that want to make sure the right bolt gets put back in the right rifle in their over-crowded gun room.
Sometimes it's well done with proper metal stamps, other times it's electropencil, paint, ink, acid-etching, engraving, and any other means you can imagine.
Everything I've read is that "official" refurbishment of Russian captured K98's began as early as the late 40's (1949 or so, generally to provide as foreign aid) and really got ramped up in the mid 60's. some poeple claim it ended in the mid-1970's, but I know for a fact that some importers (Mitchell's Mausers comes to mind) are still paying Ukrainian companies to rebuild K98k's to this very day, often crudely "matching" the rifles with stamps to be sold in the US as "collectible" Mausers.
My personal feeling on the subject is that once the "original" part has been changed out and renumbered, the rifle has already taken the value hit. Whether a rifle is mismatched or "renumbered" is irrelevant. "Renumbered Matching" is only a $10 stamp set away, but it's VERY difficult to fake the right font, strike, surface texture and finish of a factory original serialization. some exceptions are Lee Enfields that were electropencilled matching right from the factory over a suncorite finish. I consider that proper. But a Mosin Nagant with a stamped matching bolt missing its cyrillic serial number prefix on that bolt is forever a "renumbered rifle", not a factory matched piece. I pay accordingly.
Last edited:
As I understand it when an arsenal refurbishes, they take all the guns apart and work on all barrels, all bolts, etc (in whaterver order they do it) When they start putting the guns back together, they do not bother looking for matching parts. They just grab any part that is on top of a pile and re-assemble the rifle. Afterwards they either re-mark some parts to the receiver or give the receiver and the rest of the parts a new serial number.
Ramrod
Ramrod
Coyote Ugly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The only thing matching on a RC K98 may be the receiver and the barrel, and there is no guarantee on that. All other parts are completely mismatched including the wood stock, the bolt, etc, etc.... A complete mixmaster of parts. Hence the electropencil to force match the parts.
RC's are reblued/dipped and the stocks are sanded and dipped in red shellac.
At Best, the RC K98's would make a good shooter as it's far from original as when it left the factory in Germany, which is also reflected in the price.
RC's are reblued/dipped and the stocks are sanded and dipped in red shellac.
At Best, the RC K98's would make a good shooter as it's far from original as when it left the factory in Germany, which is also reflected in the price.
Last edited:
That's an interesting post Claven. I agree with you on most of it. The number of matching, correct rifles will always be in decline, but there are some circumstances where a mismatch isn't a bad thing from a collector's viewpoint. A finn mosin would be a good example. I consider a mosin rebuilt by the finns, with a mishmash of parts, to be just as valuable as a minty all matching 1947 mosin, because it's got some serious history to back up it's value. I guess mosin's are poor examples, though, because no 2 are the same anyways. As for RC's, I think they are very legitimate collectors pieces in thier own right. Most would have served on the Eastern front, and no collector can complain about a real deal K98 for 300 beans! I guess what I'm trying to say is that some mismatches have more legitimacy than others.(sorry, it's early and I haven't had my coffee)
The folks at Mitchells, should be drawn and quartered in the courtyard at noon. By all accounts they are polluting the collecting pool with thier forgeries.
The folks at Mitchells, should be drawn and quartered in the courtyard at noon. By all accounts they are polluting the collecting pool with thier forgeries.
ollie,
A Finn Mosin is matching if the Finns renumbererd the new bolt to match the barrel. I consider that factory matching since these aren't really refurbs so much as newly made firearms using older Russian receivers and small parts.
With respect to Russian mosins, probably 98%+ of the wartime Mosins on the market are renumbered refurbs, so the prices aren't out of whack. I only have one wartime russian Moain that I'm certain is not a refurb, but I paid significatly more for it
Post-war non-refurb mosins, to me, have much less history behind them so I tend to weight them about the same cost-wise as a wartime refurb.
As for Russian captures, they are collectable as a russian remanufacturing of another country's rifle, but IMHO thay are no longer collectible as a German issue K98k rifle. Others are free to feel differently about them
I will honestly tell you though, that I'd rather have a total mutt mismatched legitimate German K98k than a Russian reblued, re-shellaced, pits polished out with a belt sander and the big flat spot sanded into the side of the stock if my goal is to have a representative GERMAN rifle
A Finn Mosin is matching if the Finns renumbererd the new bolt to match the barrel. I consider that factory matching since these aren't really refurbs so much as newly made firearms using older Russian receivers and small parts.
With respect to Russian mosins, probably 98%+ of the wartime Mosins on the market are renumbered refurbs, so the prices aren't out of whack. I only have one wartime russian Moain that I'm certain is not a refurb, but I paid significatly more for it
Post-war non-refurb mosins, to me, have much less history behind them so I tend to weight them about the same cost-wise as a wartime refurb.
As for Russian captures, they are collectable as a russian remanufacturing of another country's rifle, but IMHO thay are no longer collectible as a German issue K98k rifle. Others are free to feel differently about them
I will honestly tell you though, that I'd rather have a total mutt mismatched legitimate German K98k than a Russian reblued, re-shellaced, pits polished out with a belt sander and the big flat spot sanded into the side of the stock if my goal is to have a representative GERMAN rifle
