Most Accurate PCP Repeater?

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Maple57

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I have an interest in using a PCP air rifle for PRS practice.

The rifle would first need to be a repeater.

Since we move positions with bolt open, it should not be subject to double feed if the bolt gets bumped during the bolt open move.

Most importantly, it needs to be deadly accurate. This is critical if it is to provide feedback for positional accuracy problems such as canting the rifle and certainly just a wobly setup or bad trigger pull.

Also it needs to be able to balance on a barricade. So short barreled models are out as well as light weight barrels.

Ideally the stock is suitable for PRS style shooting or an after market stock would be available.

It does not need to be terribly fast, just accurate.

It would also need to accommodate a scope.

Cost, under $2000 is best.

Any thoughts?
 
I can only speak to my experience with one PCP rifle, the one I own. I have a Weihrauch HW100T in .22 with the 'thumbhole' stock. I don't consider it a thumbhole, more of a connected pistol grip. I'm a LH shooter, and the stock is completely ambi, something that is very important to me. The HW100 does have an anti-double feed system, and it has a 14 round rotary magazine. The function of the bolt, mag and feeding is flawless. The trigger would make an Anschutz blush as well. When I got it about 7-8 years ago, I was doing accuracy testing indoors at 25M and shot five, 5 shot groups that averaged .253". I've done a fair bit of shooting at 50 yards, and won't claim that a 1/2" group is easy, it's not. On a calm evening, I expect 3/4" or better, which is all on me, and the breeze. Farthest I've shot is 130 yards and shot a group about palm sized. You're absolutely right, that a PCP rifle that is accurate shows where you are lacking, they are like dry firing, but with an actual feedback. I've got a bipod stud on mine that a buddy picked up from Rowan engineering in the UK. I get around 35 shots to a fill, but just top up when I have fired two mags. I have a Shoebox compressor and a largish carbon fiber 4500psi tank.
 
I've had two HW100 PCP rifles and agree with what PGW Steve says about them. Once the best pellet(s) are found, they can shoot very well, but not to the distances that similarly-priced, good quality .22LR's with agreeable ammo are able to do. The Weihrauch rifles regulators and hammers can be relatively easily adjusted for a good power level-to- shot count ratio. Of course, too high an MV is undesirable for accuracy. The HW100 air reservoir takes up to 200 bar (near 3000 psi), which can be filled with a scuba tank, an advantage when access to 4500 psi carbon tank refills are not easily available.

There are other well-made and accurate PCPs such as FX and Air Arms. I had an Air Arms S510 in .22 and liked it, but it didn't have a regulator so shot strings varied more than with the HW's.
 
Interesting... Thanks guys. Looks like I'm on the right track then.

I'm curious if anyone suggests anything else besides what is mentioned above and why they might feel its even better.

I currently have both an FX Dreamline in 22 and an HW100 in 177. Both are in an Aeron chassis. Both are tuned down to run in the 550 to 650 FPS range depending on pellet weight.

I like them both but based on my criteria, I find the HW100 to have all the right features for my training needs. Bolt open moves quickly translates to double feeds with the FX and that's a deal breaker.

I find that both rifles can produce good groups, but the FX Dreamline cannot be relied upon to shoot in the same place every day, or every hour for that matter. I suspect it has something to do with thermal expansion ratios between the inside and outside barrel tubes. I think it would be a better rifle with a solid steel barrel, like the HW100 has.

The HW100 religiously shoots in the same place every day per a given pellet, but as expected a change in pellet does change the POI. Not that that's a problem.

The reason for my post really is to see if anyone can suggest what might be even more accurate, if it even exists. I am certainly pleased with the HW100 and on a good day, it can shoot 10 yard groups that I cant drop a pellet through, the problem is that it does not do that all the time.

Maybe its not the rifle itself and simply how the regulator and hammer is adjusted that would make it more consistent. Maybe it's just the pellets. I do have quite a variety.

Can you guys offer any advise as to how to tune these settings. Is there some sort of systematic procedure for tuning the reg and hammer, or is it just a tweak and try kinda deal?

Putting the HW100 in an Aeron chassis forces the removal of the figure 8 barrel support band, which I think might have slightly affected the harmonics. I am considering a simple improvised hot glue or epoxy barrel support that would sit between the cylinder and barrel to ensure the barrel is supported, perhaps in a more natural way than the original method. On the other hand, again, perhaps not needed and just a hammer spring tweak away.

Accuracy is key to providing the positional feedback I need. As an example if the hit is to the side, I need to know it's because I canted the rifle and not just part of the group. So I'm really hoping to get it to consistently produce small groups, like I do get from time to time.
 
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Maple57 said:
The reason for my post really is to see if anyone can suggest what might be even more accurate. I am certainly pleased with the HW100 and on a good day, it can shoot groups that I cant drop a pellet through, the problem is that it does not do that all the time.

Maybe its not the rifle itself and simply how the regulator and hammer is adjusted that would make it more consistent.

Can you guys offer any advise as to how to tune these settings. Is there some sort of systematic procedure for tuning the reg and hammer, or is it just a tweak and try kinda deal?
Click to expand...

I suspect the problem of the HW not always shooting the same all the time is one faced by a lot of shooters, me included. With .22LR, especially when shooting outdoors, it's not unusual at all to be unable to repeat a previous performance, even when using the same ammo under similar conditions. Results can change for a variety of reasons, some of which are beyond the shooter's control. Pellets are similar to .22LR rounds in that, despite what it says on the pellet tin or box of ammo, each pellet or .22LR round can be different from the others. While there are a number of factors at play, pellet head size in the same tin, for example, can vary just as two rounds of .22LR ammo can easily not have the same MV, and this can affect performance of both.

I haven't shot air rifles for a few years and no longer have any PCPs. As a result, I don't remember well enough to offer advice about tuning the hammer or regulator. It should be "safe" to tune to MV's no more than about 900 fps for either .177 or .22 and retain best accuracy.
 
So maybe I should look into some sort of pellet head size sorting tool huh?

Maybe I could make something with a tapered hole with a dial indicator to measure how far in they fit. Assuming the OAL is the same, maybe group by length first.
 
For accuracy you should look at the Steyr Hunting 5 auto. Also safety: just pop out the magazine and no pellet let in the barrel (shoots from the magazine).
No way to double feed. ambidextrous
Stock certainly good for PRS style shoot but there is little adjustability (butt pad). But already set up for most people.
Power is adjustable 15-40J in .22. NO Reg creep at all.....first shot after weeks of standing same as last and same as second ( big bonus).
Long rail to accommodate a scope.
Best of all you can buy in Canada.
 
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Mine is the full power .22, I shoot 21.14 Baracuda Match 5.52's for best accuracy, velocity is 820. I tested a few brands and various weights and head sizes and settled on the Baracuda and bought a lot of them.
 
For a repeater, to practice position shooting, I like the Steyr LGB1.
- Mounting a scope on the short receiver can be a challenge, so I had the local smith drill-tap the barrel sleeve and we mounted a section of rail (with some JB-weld added)

The stock is pretty adjustable. It comes with a Anschutz accessory rail if you are using a handstop/bipod
It fire from the magazine, so you cannot double-feed it.

ENJPbHC.jpg


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ZBROIA (out of Ukraine) makes a nice biathlon repeater.
- But I'm not aware of any Canadian importer

ZBROIA-Biathlon-Black-2.jpg
 
Maple57 said:
So maybe I should look into some sort of pellet head size sorting tool huh?

Maybe I could make something with a tapered hole with a dial indicator to measure how far in they fit. Assuming the OAL is the same, maybe group by length first.
Click to expand...

There are gauges to sort by pellet head size. These can be used to ensure that pellets of a uniform head sized are used when the best accuracy is sought.

For the general reader, the first thing to try is finding the headsize that works well in an air rifle. Different pellet makers make pellets in different head sizes. Of course, not all the pellets in a particular tin, regardless of the headsize printed on it, will necessarily be the same.
 
For the most part, airguns have completely different ergonomics then a PRS type rifle. So is the balance.

Everything that you want to accomplish can be done through dry fire practice with your PRS gun.
 
Well, I reduced the reg and hammer spring tension a bit and tried several more kinds of pellets.

I now have the gun shooting about as well as I can see and hold from a barricade position. If I hold it there it goes there now. The group pictured below is now normal with good pellets. Maybe a guy with younger eyes could shoot better.

Velocity is dialed down from over 1000 FPS to about 550 FPS with 8.44 grain pellets and about 630 FPS with 7 grain pellets. The slower velocity helps emphasize follow through because of longer barrel time. Get off it quick and it will throw the shot.

This is a full 14 round mag from 10 yards resting balanced on a gamechanger bag on a practice cactus barricade.

EwifsaR.jpg



I'll be adding an Arca rail as soon as I have some time. It's on the FX Dreamline at the moment.

I'm using inner tube rubber bands to support the air cylinder, to dampen any vibration. They hold it both up and down, not just down.

Xw3lXw0.jpg
 
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kthomas said:
Everything that you want to accomplish can be done through dry fire practice with your PRS gun.
Click to expand...

I don't believe this to be true because there is no proof.

In our minds we "think" we made a great shot. When the pellet doesn't go there it's on the shooter. That's how we learn and confirm.

Believing we are impervious to error is the biggest error of all.

And SilyMike is right... It is fun!!!
 
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