Most accurate Vintage Military Rifle shooting match rifle and calibre combination

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mkrnel

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Just throwing this out for comment, I was checking over some of the CMP and other Vintage Military Rifle matches in the states and noticed that there seems to be a lot of 6.5x55mm M96 and CG-63 winners, they seem to beat the Swiss K31's pretty regularly, as well as the M1903's, Garand's etc.

Is this what shooters here in Canada who shoot vintage mil-surp matches find as well?

I always hear that the K31's are supposed to be the most accurate! maybe they are the second most accurate!;)

Here are the results from one shoot in Nov 2013 -

Nov2013_zps1027be3d.jpg
 
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Not to knock the swede but its mostly the piper & not the pipes that determine the top scores. Not much variation in that list, somebody should show up with a mosin to "shake things up a touch".
 
I found this info online that adds more to what I have noticed while checking military rifle competitions results online -

"The m/96 is a very accurate service rifle, indeed. This was proven during the early years of the 20th Century, when the various powers held international service rifle matches. The host country provided the rifles and ammunition used in these matches to all of the teams so that all competitors used the host nation's service rifle. In the entire history of this series of matches, the best scores across the board were not shot with the U.S. M-1903 Springfield, the British Lee-Enfield, or the vaunted German Model 98 Mauser, but with the Swedish m/96 and the Swiss Schmidt-Rubin rifles. These are the most accurate of the classic bolt action military rifles."
 
mkrnel said:
I found this info online that adds more to what I have noticed while checking military rifle competitions results online -

"The m/96 is a very accurate service rifle, indeed. This was proven during the early years of the 20th Century, when the various powers held international service rifle matches. The host country provided the rifles and ammunition used in these matches to all of the teams so that all competitors used the host nation's service rifle. In the entire history of this series of matches, the best scores across the board were not shot with the U.S. M-1903 Springfield, the British Lee-Enfield, or the vaunted German Model 98 Mauser, but with the Swedish m/96 and the Swiss Schmidt-Rubin rifles. These are the most accurate of the classic bolt action military rifles."
Click to expand...

Not too surprising but how much of that early advantage was due to the ammo & not the rifle? The m96 is just a mauser as are the 1903 springfield, Arisaska series and Gew 98. I would be willing to bet the swedes & Swiss spent a good amount of money developing their ammo for accuracy as opposed everybody else that went with the cheapest bidder.
 
That list reflects the lack of field use/abuse by the PBI of Switzerland and Sweden. Neither the Swiss nor Swedes have fielded an army for centuries. Means the rifles are in much better condition. The American rifles were likely rebuilt for target shooting. Very few Brit rifles, in decent condition, available, Stateside. The ammo is scarce(they all want to use milsurp and it's gone) and usually not matched to barrel diameter. Mosins aren't target rifles. And neither is the available ammo.
 
There are lots of good Brit rifles in the US. For example, most of the brand new No.4 Mk 2 rifles were sold in the US.
The Swiss and Swedes may not have fought in modern wars, but they shoot. Their rifles might get shot more than most. The M96s were the last of their Mausers to be sold off surplus, because they were retained for shooting.
 
Looking at those scores tells the story. It isn't the quality or accuracy of the rifles involved. As mentioned previously, it all boils down to the skill of the marksman.

I've been at more than one match where the rifle and ammo are capable of perfect scores but the shooter hasn't the skills needed to dope the wind, mirage or even changing light conditions.

All of the rifles listed are capable of fantastic accuracy. The big advantage to the Swede 6.5x55 is the light recoil and those long bullets.

One thing the list doesn't address is whether or not the shooters were using their own hand loads or they were regulated to use military issue ammo. I would think hand loads would be the flavor of the day.
 
id say the longer sight radius of the m96 helps the shooter be more accurate then the k31. Theres not enough m96 and k31 in the scoped catogory to be sure but k31 did better the m96 in the scoped even.
 
I have a 1944 Long Branch No 4 Lee Enfield that won the ORA Vintage Grand Aggregate in 97 and the Wentworth Historical Grand Aggregate in 03. The Wentworth this Long Branch defeated, scoped AR 15, M1 Garand, K31, AG 42 and about 25 other shooters.
Here in Ont. Lee Enfileds are popular, some tuned so well they can shoot well at all distances, in all adverse conditions, and from all positions with good ammo and a shooter who is prepared.
No doubt some other service rifles can do just as well.
Buy the book.
 
My own observations over about 30 milsurp matches at EOSC is:

- it's particular shooters (regardless of gun used) who place consistently in the top 5; and
- the top 5 guns tend to be from among the following: K31; Garand; No 1 Mk III; and No4 Mk 1, but other guns commonly place in the Top 5, just not consistently.

These are just my observations. That doesn't mean that those are the most accurate guns (nor does any list from anywhere), but those are the most commonly used winning guns and that's likely because the best shooters choose the guns which are known to be capable of the best accuracy.

All said, the K31 seems to be an excellent choice as is the Garand. Lee Enfields can shoot well as can Swede M96's. As a Canadian I am supposed to agree that the Ross was the most accurate milsurp extant, but I have not observed that, and as suggested above, there's no way to prove that, as the shooter is the key factor. Some shooters can place in the Top 5 almost regardless of gun chosen, and some shooters can't break the top 5 regardless of gun chosen.
 
Andy said:
My own observations over about 30 milsurp matches at EOSC is:

- it's particular shooters (regardless of gun used) who place consistently in the top 5; and
- the top 5 guns tend to be from among the following: K31; Garand; No 1 Mk III; and No4 Mk 1, but other guns commonly place in the Top 5, just not consistently.

These are just my observations. That doesn't mean that those are the most accurate guns (nor does any list from anywhere), but those are the most commonly used winning guns and that's likely because the best shooters choose the guns which are known to be capable of the best accuracy.

All said, the K31 seems to be an excellent choice as is the Garand. Lee Enfields can shoot well as can Swede M96's. As a Canadian I am supposed to agree that the Ross was the most accurate milsurp extant, but I have not observed that, and as suggested above, there's no way to prove that, as the shooter is the key factor. Some shooters can place in the Top 5 almost regardless of gun chosen, and some shooters can't break the top 5 regardless of gun chosen.
Click to expand...

Ahmen.
 
From another direction, I want to shoot at a couple of matches in the US every year in vintage military category (prior to 1912). I've had a problem in the past bringing in "lend lease" firearms so my 1903 Springfield is out, I've read an obscure note on the BATF website that Lee Enfields could be a problem, probably because Savage manufactured them in WW2. So I've just purchased a Mauser M96 in 6.5x 55mm with a 1900 dated receiver. The gun fits the requirements of the match and I've read nothing on the BATF website that indicates that Mauser M96's are restricted from entry into the US.
 
Honestly I'd have to agree that it is indeed the shooter and not the rifle.

I shoot well with these rifles:

M96 swede
Finn m91 mosin
No4 mk1
MkIII Ross
No1 mk3
K31

Any one of the above rifles are capable of winning matches. I find ww1 vintage rifles to be my go to choice as they more often then not have a long sight radious and the long barrels tend to extract a few more fps out of my handloads.
 
We are very fortunate in Canada to have access to all those hardly used Swedish and Swiss rifles; we have so many we don't properly appreciate them IMO.

The Ross, the P14/M17 and the Lee Enfield would be right up there but for the fact that most of them went through a world war or two and long years of civilian ownership after that.
 
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