Musings and Obsevations of an Old Shooter/Hunter/Reloader..........

c-fbmi

c-fbmi

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An observation posted in another thread got me to thinking and assessing different hunting ideals, attitudes and techniques.

"Beware the one gun hunter, he probably knows how to shoot it" which was countered by a couple guys saying the one gun hunters they have known couldn't shoot worth a sh!t. I got to thinking about the people I know and realized that the guys response was also my experience....However, I can also say the one guy I know particularly well, never once mentioned how far his animal was from the shot. To him it just wasn't a factor because he would stalk to within his comfort zone and make his shot. When I asked him how far he shot a goat at, his response was " Oh #### I don't know, maybe 100 or so yards". I asked him a bunch of questions, as he was known as an avid and very successful hunter, but what I realized is that he was not a shooter at all. He did not reload, he shot an old Browning 30-06 with a Weaver K-4 on it and he understood the mechanics enough to only use one brand and bullet weight of ammo....I think he said Winchester 180 Power Point. He sighted his rifle bang on at 100 yards and checked it with a couple shots every hunting season before going afield.

His love and expertize was hunting and solely hunting, to him his rifle was a tool by which to pursue his true love. He never once needed to shoot 400 mtrs nor did it even enter his head to do so, as he intrinsically knew what his kill zone was and never tried to expand it with equipment or practice. I doubt it even entered his mind, he would just sneak in closer.....period. Now make no mistake, he was a very accomplished hunter and trophy hunter, he just wasn't a shooter and his box of shells would last him 4 or 5 years.

I know several other guys whose first words out of their mouths when told of a successful hunt was "how far was the shot". This shows a completely different mindset as to the sport of hunting. These boys are shooters first and hunters second unlike my old buddy with his 30-06. They are not wrong as such, but their first love is the shooting and skill developed in this discipline, as opposed to get within 100 mtrs and make your shot. These are the fellows who say the one gun hunter usually is not much of a shooter, and are correct. Just don't demean his skill as a hunter, is all I have to say.......

I personally am an avid hunter as well as a moderate range shooter/hunter and an accomplished reloader......to me these things have gone together for more than 40 years. I shot competitively for many years and have reloaded since I was 16 years old. I have done the "how tight can I get my groups", "how fast can I REALLY make that bullet go", "how far can I shoot with reasonable accuracy and consistency" for many, many years. This has in turn allowed me to expand my effective range when hunting with confidence, making me a more successful hunter in the big picture. I can't say if this was the original goal.......I somehow doubt it. I just am very competitive and when shooting competition I want to win, so I invest in the right equipment and then I practice my ass off.

I have always loved shooting, from the days of my first pellet gun. I can't explain it to anyone who doesn't already have "the bug". I spent hundreds of hours with my pellet rifle hunting sparrows, starlings and other asundried critters I was allowed to shoot . Almost always alone and enjoyed every second of it and reaped the benefits that amount of shooting did for my skill level. I must say the limited accurate range of my rifle did a fair bit towards my stalking skills as well, now that I think back on it. All this shooting was done with the sights that came on the gun and I learned how to adjust them and how to effectively use good old "notch and blade" sights to their greatest accuracy possible.

I have also maintained a periphery interest in bow hunting all my life, which I deem to be about the ultimate in the use of hunting skills. I got fairly serious about it a few years back and got some top end equipment and went about learning all about bows, arrows, spine weights, speeds, brace heights and on, and on, and on. My son was also right into it so we used to shoot a couple hundred arrows every night in my shop at 30 yds........we got good, really, really good. So we decided to join the archery club and went to the school gym shooting range one wintery Tuesday night. Introduced ourselves to the directorate and asked if we might join and be included. We were invited to shoot that evening and check it out. We noticed most, if not all were shooting stick bows unlike our Mathews compounds and the skill level was truly abysmal. After shooting with the club for the allotted hour and a half, we were approached by the same gentleman that invited us to shoot and it was suggested to us that perhaps this wasn't the best venue for our type of shooting and please don't come back.......

I guess in summation all I'm saying is there are many ways to approach hunting and be successful. Different skills sets allow for different approaches but success is ultimately measured when the quarry hits the ground. Whether that be from a well placed shot at 500 mtrs or a well placed arrow at 25 mtrs or anything in between. I don't scorn the successful one gun hunter because he is not a shooter, he never said he was. I don't scorn the long range shooter/hunters because I understand the level of dedication, practice and expense required to get to that skill level. Unlike the one gun hunter though, I think too many over estimate their long range skills in the hunting field, believing that what they learn at the bench is directly applicable in the field. This is unfortunate for the sport and the long range disciple in particular. It is my opinion that long range hunting skills need to be honed in the field on critters like gophers and ground hogs and badgers and jack rabbits and the like before big game is on the menu. The same applies to shooting moving and running game. My old hunting buddy's dad used to say "you don't get good at shooting game by shooting paper"

This is all just a few my own observations and opinions formed over 40+ years of shooting and hunting and expressed solely in the interest of promoting positive hunting dialogue.
 
Well said.. Seems like people are watching to much TV and video games now... And think because they have a gun in there hands it automaticly turns into a laser beam
I'm having a on going discussion with a guy at work who knows zero about any thing firearm related .. defend his son who's first rifle and not even fired a box of shells yet.. should have a 2# trigger on a hunting rifle...
I think I'm going to give up giving any advice or help to anyone.. especially when they ignore everything
 
Good morning. I appreciate your musings this Saturday. Brings back memories of countless hours and days with my crossman pellet rifle hunting squirrels on the trapline through my mid teens. Though I have 'grown' over the years to become a true gunnut, in the field I have always considered my self 1st a hunter over a shooter. More satisfaction is gained for me throught the use of my hunting skill, ahead of my shooting skill. The closer I can get the better! I often hunt with open or peep sights, and haven't yet felt limited by their use. I enjoy and use scopes as well, and likely will do so more in the years to come as my eyes are changing as I age, and my 2 daughters have absorbed a lot if the time I used to spend shooting!
 
A similar story to my own, Douglas. One difference is, that after I built my first stick bow and cedar arrows at 13 years of age and bagged my first big game animal, a 150 pound black bear, I was hooked on bowhunting. I still shot rifles and shotguns a good bit, and hunted big game occasionally with rifles, and was sub-addicted to waterfowling and upland game hunting... but for the most part it has been a 40 year love affair with stick and string.... a great ride... these days I am far less driven to harvest an animal and far more interested in helping others be successful and enjoying the overall experience... and a good thing, because due to a right ankle broken in three places, this is the first fall, since I shot that little bear at 13, that I did not shoot a single big game animal... I'm regretful of the time missed in the woods, but not particularly that I didn't harvest an animal.
 
Handloading is an amusing diversion done to maximize load performance. Frequent off-hand target shooting practice is done to maintain and improve field markmanship skills. Time and money well wasted. ;)

Hunting is a passion that provides food and adventure.

Always more to learn about handloading, shooting and hunting through experience. And from sages and goofs alike. :p
 
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My big game hunting started with archery so even when I use my 300 wm or 25/06 I still hope to get within 50 yards of my prey of the 78 deer I've shot only 8 have been further than 60 yards and many have been under 15 yards
I like to get as close as I can no matter what I use or what I hunt. I'm capable of making longer shots. I practice every week but the thrill of being so close to the game is what matters whether or not I get the shot
For instance this deer season I had 27 deer (22 bucks 3 does 2 fawns) under 20 yards broadside. The deer I decided to take was shot at about 4-5 yards with a muzzleloader
 
That would definitely describe me ol`pah.
One rifle, one shotgun and a 22 just because.

Only thing missing here is the 22 which he gave away.
 
The one gun hunter reminds me a bit of my father, not that he only had one gun but 90% of the time he chose to use his beloved Brno in 30-06 and 90% of his kills would have been within 100 meters with a few rare exceptions.
So that 30-06 was his daily rifle except on the rare occasion when he had friends over for the weekend hunt or a couple of guys from the states that use to come in to town 3 to 4 times a year, on those occasions he used the 9.3 or the .375 and like c-fbmi friend he never bragged about long shots but he was pretty much a one shot guy with is 30-06 even in animals up to 4 to 5 tons.
But on the other hand i also realize that there are many one gun hunters that sight in their rifles on the first day and it's good for life never checking zero again.
 
Very interesting read. My love of the outdoors and hunting came from my father and spending a lot of time with him fishing and camping. He was a hunter as young man but when life changed for him due to marriage and kids, hunting took a back seat. My older brother and sister had no desire, but my reading of Farley Mowat's novels had me asking dad about the shotguns and rifles in his closet. He started me with a pellet gun, and like most other young men with pellet rifle I stalked starlings and squirrels while dreaming they were caribou or grizzly bears. I was given a fibreglass bow by a neighbour and that was it! I have been a dedicated bowhunter ever since that day some 30 plus years ago! I also hunt with firearms, but my preferred method is definitely my bow. I have shot deer with compound, crossbow, rifle, shotgun and muzzleloader so my next goal is to become proficient enough with traditional gear to shoot a deer like old Papa Bear himself, Fred Bear.

Over the years I have acquired quite a collection of firearms, long range competition rifles, hunting rifles, trap, waterfowl and upland shotguns, rimfire, muzzleloaders, some antiques, and some parts firearms too. I was also introduced to reloading by a fellow CGN'r, and have spent many an evening at the reloading bench working towards that perfect load. I too enjoy the hunt so much that back in '95 with a badly torn rotor cuff I switched from my compound to a crossbow, I had to have dad #### it for me as I was not able to do that myself, and I truly had a single shot because once fired, if dad wasn't with me, I was either tracking an animal or headed to the house with tail tucked between my legs! This experience taught me the value of that one shot, to this day I try to get as close as possible and wait for that perfect shot.

Always interesting to hear others experiences and views on techniques and styles of hunting.
 
brybenn said:
My big game hunting started with archery so even when I use my 300 wm or 25/06 I still hope to get within 50 yards of my prey of the 78 deer I've shot only 8 have been further than 60 yards and many have been under 15 yards
I like to get as close as I can no matter what I use or what I hunt. I'm capable of making longer shots. I practice every week but the thrill of being so close to the game is what matters whether or not I get the shot
For instance this deer season I had 27 deer (22 bucks 3 does 2 fawns) under 20 yards broadside. The deer I decided to take was shot at about 4-5 yards with a muzzleloader
Click to expand...

I feel the same way...

My very first Moose... was an Archery shot @ 10 yards....He was only a 40 " Bull and it was my 2nd year Archery hunting....but it was still my most memorable hunt.
 
Today you do not need too get close ,, you need too hunt too find an animal too shoot ,, On the show .. ""BEST of the WEST .. they shoot sometimes close too half a mile ,, the animal never even knows they are there .. There is 1260 yards in a mile and they shoot 1000- 1100 all the time .. I have said many times this is shooting animals ,, Not hunting them and getting close for the shot ,, Mind you they have guns worth thousands of dollars but harvesting an animal at 7-800 yards is not even a challenge,, They guy with the range finder calls out the distance and the shooter turns his scope too 800 and put the cross hairs on it and shoots
 
i think the op hit the nail on the perverbial side nail on the head. Hunting is not necessarily just about shooting nor does being a great shot make you a great hunter. The two things do however complement each other. I think that being a bit of a gun nut is helpful for the hunter. I know it helped me in my evolution as a hunter.
I used to be the guy that only brought out my guns the week before deer season and shot my box of bullets. Then went hunting and I missed a lot but usually got my deer or turkey or duck or whatever but I missed a lot. It wasn't until I started to reload and really shoot my firearms that I realized how poor of a shot I really was. I've done some shooting from the bench now, but found out quickly that bench shooting, Doesn't do a lot to help your field shooting ability. Now unless I am load testing I rarely shoot from the bench. I shoot from field positions at hunting distances at hunting size targets. To try to make myself a more proficient hunter.

As for bow hunting ...if someone said pick your preferred weapon to hunt with and you can only pick one I'd grab my Hoyt compound every dammed day. This is just my opinion but bow hunting big game is truly the essence of hunting.
 
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mike Crawford said:
Today you do not need too get close ,, you need too hunt too find an animal too shoot ,, On the show .. ""BEST of the WEST .. they shoot sometimes close too half a mile ,, the animal never even knows they are there .. There is 1260 yards in a mile and they shoot 1000- 1100 all the time .. I have said many times this is shooting animals ,, Not hunting them and getting close for the shot ,, Mind you they have guns worth thousands of dollars but harvesting an animal at 7-800 yards is not even a challenge,, They guy with the range finder calls out the distance and the shooter turns his scope too 800 and put the cross hairs on it and shoots
Click to expand...

There are 1760 yards in a mile... oops, Ted beat me to it... in the same minute.
 
I had flashbacks to growing up on our farm and the day I was given my first .22 as an upgrade to my air rifle that I packed all over those 500 acres. My grandfather and I would pack through the woods and he would teach me how to track, look for game, and how to set-up in spots to get a good 'close' shot. We walked everywhere across our property, through the woods, across the fields, and he always had an old SXS over his shoulder, saying that was all he ever needed - a slug for game and birdshot for things with feathers. He was the one gun guy you speak of, and boy do I still smile now thinking back on how I smiled, looking up to him, happy being with one hand on my shoulder and the other on that old SXS.
 
Well composed and written Douglas. My first hunting was with a fibreglass bow and 3 arrows I bought new for $5.65 at age 13. Shot red squirrels and partridge with it. My Dad gave me a BB gun at 15 and a double barrel Ithaca 20 ga. at 16, that ended the bow hunting. Have loved guns ever since. Have no idea what happened to the bow and 3 arrows but I still have and use the Ithaca. I started off only hunting. But then realized I really enjoyed the shooting as well. The best venue for that at the time was clay targets. Reloaded thousands of shot shell's. So that's where my area of expertise for many years lay. Expanded over the years into centre fire shooting. Have had countless enjoyable hours hunting and shooting and hope to have many more.
 
I've made some observations about one rifle shooters. (I'll even include those that have several that they somehow choose not to count, those that just wish they were one gun shooters, those that feel a lot of guilt for having more than one and those that self-identify as a one gun shooter to bulk it out).

Inevitably, if they are successful hunters its under the narrow set of circumstances that they consider normal. Usually it's in their backyard, and if they don't get their animal today there's always tomorrow or next week. As often as not their circumstances are such that it doesn't matter a hill of beans what they used.

Lets use whitetail for example, since they are available to just about everyone. I can put anyone with one eye and a trigger finger within bow-range of a deer on any given day and probably within any given hour. Under those circumstances anyone will be successful and could just as easily be a king-#### bowhunter. Big deal. Time it right and you could get a bear too. Put in a little more time and you could get decent examples of both. Also, big deal. There you go, 100 percent successful, little to no knowledge, and it might not matter if you've ever shot a rifle before never mind how many you have.


Take the guy who has a lifetime of successful hunting out of that blind or similar ones, and drop him off in the prairies sometime. Or a desert, or maybe the tundra. Anyone for a stroll in the jungle, or a walk above the tree-line? Mr One-Gun, gets his deer every year guy is likely going to be sporting a classic fish out of water look.
 
My father was "in the industry" , Shooting Sports Development Manager when he retired from a Canadian outfit, he was also a World class competitor and coach.
We hand loaded constantly for many rifles and shotguns, but when he went hunting , he shot factory guns and factory ammo when he was invited to hunting camps or even jusst out with us. he was an all around hunter, using different styles when the need arose, be it blind, still hunting and stalking or stand hunting with hounds.
He also saved the long range shots for the full bore range.
I shoot mostly vintage guns and old school cartridges the past many years, and seem too enjoy hunting more.
Cat
 
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