Muzzle device shock

Jamie

Jamie

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I had a small muzzle brake on my savage mk2 it was a brake of the RA Xcr 222 looks like a a2 style flash hider with a plate on the front to make it work as a brake.

So I swapped it out with a standard A2 flashhider

Same day same ammo.

The A2 FH moved my point of impact 1 full mill low at 50 meters. And my groups opened up?

I put the brake on a ruger American 223 and the groups shrunk. About a 1/4” at 100 meters.

Kinda makes you think. Both are close to the same size and weight. Does a brake shrink groups?
 
Maybe the slight difference in weight had an effect on the harmonic balance of the barrel.
 
Theoretically a brake should have no effect on the rifles ability vs no brake, but a poorly made or designed brake could negatively impact a rifles performance.
PA M41 is the only one I'm aware of that has designed a brake that is supposed to improve accuracy. The theory makes sense, whether it delivers I'm not sure.
https://precisionarmament.com/product/m41-muzzle-brake/
I personally try to avoid brakes on precision rifles that have upward ports, and try to stick with 100% neutral styles. I don't want the gas pushing the pill anyway but straight.
 
This one might be worth a look.

gnYelFu.jpg
 
Hitzy, I’m no scientist but that theory doesn’t make sense to me.

Take a rod, say 6’ long. Hold it straight out away from your body like you’re pointing at something in front of you. Now shake it. It moves pretty easy.
Do the same thing with a 1lb weight, right in front of your hands. You feel the weight but it may even move a little easier.
Do the same thing with the weight right at the front tip of that rod. You’ll be working a lot harder to make that rod move.

That is extreme compared to a muzzle brake or a flash hider but the basic principle applies. KDX is correct. It’s not so much the weight but where the weight is added and it changes the harmonics in the barrel. That’s why it opens up the groups on one rifle but tightens them on another.
 
If I had a good scale I would weigh it. They must be close.

I am thinking that the closed bottom of the A2 is “ gassing “ on one side of the bullet. if that’s the right word for it

I have a linear brake/comp here I could try but find that 22 carbons them up fast
 
Do you notice any difference in the perceived sound with the linear comp? CCI seems to be fairly clean for rimfire ammo.
 
Jamie said:
Does a brake shrink groups?
Click to expand...

Hitzy said:
Theoretically a brake should have no effect on the rifles ability vs no brake,
Click to expand...

Any attachment to the barrel that extends beyond the muzzle will have an effect, this is physics and there is no escaping it. The barrel vibrates during the shot, and the addition of a muzzle device modulates the vibration pattern. The achievement of accuracy is vitally linked to the use of ammunition whose combustion characteristics set up a favorable vibration pattern in the barrel, coupled with the ideal barrel time for the velocity of the round, so as to exit the muzzle during a stable node in the vibration cycle, and do so consistently.

You can think of a muzzle brake as a crude, non-adjustable barrel tuner of sorts. My understanding of barrel tuning is that the goal is to place enough weight at the right location ahead of the muzzle so as to quiet down, or stop, the vibrations at the muzzle as much as possible. Other theories abound, and would be the topic for another thread. Point is, precisely controlling the muzzle vibrations, from whatever perspective you want to look at it from.

A muzzle brake probably does not weigh enough to be as effective as a purpose built tuner (nor does it feature the adjustability), but it will still change the vibration pattern. Your Savage will probably shoot just fine with the A2 on it, you just need to find a different ammo that is compatible with the new vibration pattern. A thought that's a little redneck, but you could also affix lead tape to the end of the A2 a little bit at a time until your current ammo performs to your liking.
 
You will not see serious bench rest shooters using brakes but you will see them using tuners. Dlask is just marketing a cosmetic product. (His words - "make your rifle stand out in a crowd")
 
Well using a linear comp on short barreled AR’s does help when used inside a small space lol. On the 22 not that my facked up ears can tell.
 
guntech said:
You will not see serious bench rest shooters using brakes but you will see them using tuners. Dlask is just marketing a cosmetic product. (His words - "make your rifle stand out in a crowd")
Click to expand...


Yeah not doing bench rest stuff. But to see my group open up and drop a full
Mil at 50 was weird.
 
I am going to try to get out next week and try a few muzzle devices I have in parts bins and just a thread protector.
 
As noted by others, adding something to the barrel can affect POI and accuracy. These include such things as a Sims Rifle Barrel Deresonator, a bipod attached to the barrel, a barrel channel that randomly presses against the barrel, and various muzzle devices. The key with tuners is that they are adjusted to react to the barrel vibrations to produce accuracy, whereas with other devices results will vary according to rifle, sometimes making no difference and sometimes inducing a small difference, for better or worse, in POI or accuracy.
 
I have not had a chance to shoot it yet but I made a tuner for my 22. Copied the basic design from a commercial one I was installing for a customer. Tuners work really well. I had a Harrels in the past.

tuner.jpg
 
guntech said:
I have not had a chance to shoot it yet but I made a tuner for my 22. Copied the basic design from a commercial one I was installing for a customer. Tuners work really well. I had a Harrels in the past.

tuner.jpg
Click to expand...


So it moves the weight ahead or back ?
 
grauhanen said:
As noted by others, adding something to the barrel can affect POI and accuracy. These include such things as a Sims Rifle Barrel Deresonator, a bipod attached to the barrel, a barrel channel that randomly presses against the barrel, and various muzzle devices. The key with tuners is that they are adjusted to react to the barrel vibrations to produce accuracy, whereas with other devices results will vary according to rifle, sometimes making no difference and sometimes inducing a small difference, for better or worse, in POI or accuracy.
Click to expand...

My rifle shoots very well and has since I got it. It is free floated and bedded. Only thing that I changed was the comp
 
Jamie said:
So it moves the weight ahead or back ?
Click to expand...

That's how tuners work... a few thou at a time until you hit the sweet spot for the ammo you are shooting...
Centerfire hand loaders tune the load... rim fires can't tune the load but they can tune the barrel to the ammo.
 
guntech said:
That's how tuners work... a few thou at a time until you hit the sweet spot for the ammo you are shooting...
Centerfire hand loaders tune the load... rim fires can't tune the load but they can tune the barrel to the ammo.
Click to expand...

I might have to try one. Rim fire is so far down the scale in my shooting that I know little about it. But I am planning on shooting some rim fire PRS matches this year
 
So I pulled off the A2 and put a open faced four prong flashider and my full mil lost came back and my group shrunk.
 
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