muzzle device with specific properties

jjohnwm

jjohnwm

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I don't have much experience with muzzle devices in general; I find the additional noise and concussion of a device to be far more objectionable than the recoil of the gun without a device, at least on the very few I have tried. So...I need some suggestions and pointers.

I am planning on doing at least some hunting this fall with a Sig Cross in .308. Nice light gun, very accurate, a joy to shoot. I can't help but think it would be nice to find a muzzle device that would mitigate the muzzle flip somewhat, without blowing my eardrums out. I don't care about recoil-reduction; I don't give a damn about how "bad-ass" the thing looks; I don't even care about how bad the blast and concussion are off to both sides, as I usually shoot alone. I just want to be able to see my shots in the scope, and to not increase the noise and concussion I experience while shooting. Oh...and obviously the shorter and lighter, the better. I don't want to turn a short, light, well-balanced rifle into a long, heavy, ungainly one. I'd rather just give up on the whole idea.

A reasonable hope? Do I want a linear compensator? One of those brake/shroud combinations? Any thoughts and suggestions greatly appreciated.
 
jjohnwm said:
I don't have much experience with muzzle devices in general; I find the additional noise and concussion of a device to be far more objectionable than the recoil of the gun without a device, at least on the very few I have tried. So...I need some suggestions and pointers.

I am planning on doing at least some hunting this fall with a Sig Cross in .308. Nice light gun, very accurate, a joy to shoot. I can't help but think it would be nice to find a muzzle device that would mitigate the muzzle flip somewhat, without blowing my eardrums out. I don't care about recoil-reduction; I don't give a damn about how "bad-ass" the thing looks; I don't even care about how bad the blast and concussion are off to both sides, as I usually shoot alone. I just want to be able to see my shots in the scope, and to not increase the noise and concussion I experience while shooting. Oh...and obviously the shorter and lighter, the better. I don't want to turn a short, light, well-balanced rifle into a long, heavy, ungainly one. I'd rather just give up on the whole idea.

A reasonable hope? Do I want a linear compensator? One of those brake/shroud combinations? Any thoughts and suggestions greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Do you use now or would you consider using electronic ear muffs or electronic ear plugs? Top tier brakes work well to control recoil in order the maintain or quickly re-aquire the target. The noise is a thing though. I use electronic muffs. Many use both plugs and muffs, but I don’t find that required all the time. I am getting older and have abused my ears to some extent though.
 
My ears suffered plenty in my younger years...shooting without protection, loud music, general stupidity...but now I wear electronic muffs for 99.999% of my shooting, occasionally even together with plugs for big boomers. The single exception is hunting. I simply will not carry muffs, electronic or otherwise, in the hunting fields. But I know that a couple of the braked guns I have played with were way too loud for even one shot, even taken outdoors in an open area.

Old school, irresponsible, Fudd...call it what you will. I want to be able to take a shot or two au naturel while hunting. :) Thanks for the suggestion but...if I can't get a device that lets me do that with no more blast and concussion than a bare rifle, so be it.
 
Yes a linear compensator or blast defuser would be what you're looking for.... well actually a suppressor... but you know... dumb laws.

Certainly should still wear hearing protection for anything other than Hunting... as hearing damage is cumulative.. as you said you do.

Another option is to avoid higher velocity loads, and depending on your distances shoot quieter ammo, or even subsonic if it's an option.

Final option is to set up your stand to mitigate noise.
If you are hunting from a ground blind or elevated blind, having something between your muzzle and your ears is very helpful.
 
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Daver_II said:
Yes a linear compensator or blast defuser would be what you're looking for.... well actually a suppressor... but you know... dumb laws.

Certainly should still wear hearing protection for anything other than Hunting... as hearing damage is cumulative.
Click to expand...

It sure is...and I've accumulated plenty...:)

I actually played with a suppressed rifle for an afternoon more than a decade ago in Africa. It was cool and fun...but I wasn't completely sold on it for all my shooting. Would I love to be able to use one when shooting behind my house? Absolutely. But would I want one on my rifle while hunting big game? Not really...just as I would not be shooting game at ultra-long range with a heavy rifle Arca-railed onto a tripod. Not my cup of tea; I've been drinking my tea prepared a certain way for a half-century-plus and I like it that way. :)
 
Any device that can direct the gases to reduce flip means more noise to you.... if you use any attachment, I would definitely want to have earmuffs or plugs in.

Changing the buttpad position can go a long ways to help with recoil control.

Jerry
 
Physics prevails every time, no way around it.
Adding a brake, any brake, will send higher noise energy back to the shooter.
Every shot fired with your .308 when hunting without ear protection is accumulating more damage to your hearing.

All brakes are not created equal.
YouTubers "Mark and Sam After Work" have made several excellent videos about muzzle brake design and functions. Although they make their own brakes for sale, I think they provide an honest study of the pros and cons of various designs on the market. There is no bad or inferior brake, its all about trade-offs in functions and performance for what the shooter wants.
They recently made a video about brakes and noise energy to the shooter, although it was not done in a lab with the highest quality of instrumentation, so take it for what its worth.

Link to their YT page: https://www.youtube.com/@markandsamafterwork
In the search box, type in "brakes" and several of their videos about brakes will be listed. Lots of good info.

I have only 1 experience with a brake: The Insite Arms Heathen, 4 port (original version) on a 6.5 x 47L. IA advertises its properties as having minimal blow-back for gas and concussion on the shooter. I am happy with its performance shooting at the range (have not used it for hunting). I wear double ear protection (foam plugs and electronic ear muffs), and eye protection of course. There is a little bit of blow-back, but I do not find it uncomfortable.

I see from Insite Arms' website that they now have a Gen 2 Heathen brake design looking very different (and with a new tuner brake option). It appears from the photos to be using a perpendicular port design, I don't see any backwards angles, although they may be there but not obvious from just the photos. I look forward to seeing reviews on this new IA design.
 
Everybody is talking about brakes; correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a brake specifically designed to reduce felt recoil? If so, that's not my concern. Muzzle flip is what I am trying to eliminate as much as possible.

The more I read, the more I think that I should be looking at a linear compensator. I recently picked up a "blast can" off the clearance shelf at the local Cabela's; it's just a hollow can with a more or less conical interior chamber that screws onto the end of the muzzle. As far as I can tell, it seems not to make any noticeable difference in either recoil or muzzle flip, but it is much quieter to shoot...from my perspective behind the gun...than the naked barrel. Perhaps this is simply due to the extra length added?

I'm thinking that a linear compensator, also without any holes on the sides or top, would do the same for muzzle blast, i.e. direct it away from me and make it "seem" quieter to the shooter. But do linear compensators do anything for muzzle flip? Without any upward facing holes on the top surface, would they simply function the same as the blast can?
 
Correct... ports have to be present to direct gases in the direction you want to mitigate. And any holes around the brake, means concussion towards you.

If you have to have ports, then gill ports to reduce recoil, top port to reduce flip. If you can fabricate, thread and bore a rod of alum. Put a port where ever you prefer.

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
Correct... ports have to be present to direct gases in the direction you want to mitigate. And any holes around the brake, means concussion towards you.

If you have to have ports, then gill ports to reduce recoil, top port to reduce flip. If you can fabricate, thread and bore a rod of alum. Put a port where ever you prefer.

Jerry
Click to expand...

Thanks, but nope, don't need ports...don't need a gizmo at all, in fact. I like the gun just fine as it sits now; I was hoping for the "free lunch" of reducing muzzle flip without increasing muzzle blast/concussion. Pretty much knew there would be compromises, but no harm in asking. :)

edited to add: OOOH! Just had an epiphany!

I have the blast can which doesn't do enough for me to warrant keeping it on there, IMHO. So...out comes the Dremel tool. I am going to cut away the top of the can, angling the cut inwards all the way around the edge. Essentially trying to achieve some of the benefits of an upwards-facing port to combat flip...but hoping to re-direct the blast forwards and slightly upwards, rather than merely forwards. The hope is that the increase in blast/concussion to the shooter is largely unaffected, but the upward bias to the blast re-direction may help reduce the upwards motion of the muzzle.

Of course, the modified can will then need to be timed using shims and a crush washer...

If it works, I can worry about cleaning it up and improving the cosmetics afterwards. If it doesn't...the blast can was cheap. :)
 
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Would be nice to find a cheap, easy and effective muzzle device to tame the 16" 308. If you come across anything decent please let us know.
 
Fit a heavier scope, maybe even mounted a bit higher if the stock will allow. Will reduce muzzle flip.
edi
 
If I want to control flip, I hold down on the scope when using a rest. Just hold forearm tighter if shooting offhand.
 
So I'm hearing that I should hold the gun differently, or add weight to it, or do this or do that. You guys don't get it; I want a Free Lunch! :)

I want reduced muzzle flip, without giving up light weight or suffering increased concussion/blast or paying any other price for the benefit. I want something for nothing. Yes, of course I know that's a ridiculous demand; there is no such thing, so I want a compromise that I find acceptable and I may have sorta kinda found it.

At a gun show recently I picked up a very small muzzle brake strictly because I worked it into a purchase and got it very cheaply. It's made of steel, very short and acceptably lightweight, adds maybe an inch overall length...and it isn't deafening. A bit louder, but not uncomfortably so; nothing like some brakes I've tried that make comfortable rifles into uncomfortable ones. No concussion felt on my face when using it. Not sure how it is off to the sides, and don't really care.

And I can see my hits in the scope! I'm sure that other brakes would be more effective...and louder...and heavier...but this one is effective enough without overdoing those other traits. That was the goal and it seems to have been attained. I have no idea who makes this thing, it had no packaging; it was used but in like-new shape. Compromise is good! :)

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