My .303 Jungle Carbine Mystery

TCBF

TCBF

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Location
Edmonton, AB
I'm stumped. Several decades back, I purchased a .303 Jungle Carbine from 'International Firearms' in Montreal. I put it with the rest of my fleet, and ignored it for 25 years.

I recently paid it some attention. With Skennerton's book (The British Service Lee) at hand, I decided to check it out.

It has matching four-digit serial numbers on the receiver butt socket, bolt handle and magazine. Bolt handle knob has a lightening hole in it.

There are no roll or stamp marks on either side of the receiver noting place or date of manufacture. No FTR marks, nothing, except a faint '5' stamped above the sear on the left side of the receiver.

(add edit): 5 groove LH twist barrel appears in very good condition. Wood marked but good. Metal finish good.

The sight is a No. 1, with RFI stamped on the adjusting wheel. Possibly an Ishapore sight?... but it is graduated to 800.

There is a ' 3 20 ' on the left side of the barrel where the knox form narrows to the normal barrel diameter.

The slightly brassed metal endcap has 1957 stamped on it. The endcap appears to have a brass rod vertical where the barrel rests. Really worn proof mark on the bottom knox form (crown over 30 (?) over N), what appears to be a circle with a D in it (draw lapped barrel?) on the top of the knox form.

Lightening cuts on knox form and receiver. No. 4 style bolt and bolt release latch.

At first I thought: a Gibbs? But, did "Sante Fe Carbines" not stamp their receivers?

Chambers 303, not 308.

Any chance a receiver was sold surp (or 'waylaid') before being stamped? It should have a lot more marks on it if it had entered service.

Ideas?
 
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:needPics:
TCBF said:
I'm stumped. Several decades back, I purchased a .303 Jungle Carbine from 'International Firearms' in Montreal. I put it with the rest of my fleet, and ignored it for 25 years.

I recently paid it some attention. With Skennerton's book (The British Service Lee) at hand, I decided to check it out.

It has matching four-digit serial numbers on the receiver butt socket, bolt handle and magazine. Bolt handle knob has a lightening hole in it.

There are no roll or stamp marks on either side of the receiver noting place or date of manufacture. No FTR marks, nothing, except a faint '5' stamped above the sear on the left side of the receiver.

(add edit): 5 groove LH twist barrel appears in very good condition. Wood marked but good. Metal finish good.

The sight is a No. 1, with RFI stamped on the adjusting wheel. Possibly an Ishapore sight?... but it is graduated to 800.

There is a ' 3 20 ' on the left side of the barrel where the knox form narrows to the normal barrel diameter.

The slightly brassed metal endcap has 1957 stamped on it. the encap appears to have a brass rod vertical where the batrrel rests. Really worn proof mark on the bottom knox form (crown over 30 (?) over N), what appears to be a circle with a D in it (draw lapped barrel?) on the top of the knox form.

Lightening cuts on knox form and receiver. No. 4 style bolt and bolt release latch.

At first I thought: a Gibbs? But, did "Sante Fe Carbines" not stamp their receivers?

Chambers 303, not 308.

Any chance a receiver was sold surp (or 'waylaid') before being stamped? It should have a lot more marks on it if it had entered service.

Ideas?
Click to expand...
 
Sounds like you have an Indian refurbed British made No5Mk1 (Jungle carbine). The brits started using the metal forestock cap in 1946. I don't think the 1957 date should reflect a rifle manufacture date but perhaps give you a clue as to when this rifle may have been refurbed. Could have been a refurb process OR because you purchased this rifle from International Arms you may have a CAI parts rifle.

I've seen it a few times now. CAI had assembled enfield parts from every corner of the world as salvage (and made a few of their own). Literally piles and piles for bolt components, bands, screws, etc etc etc. Basically a CAI refurb program where you could expect anything from Indian, Ozzy, British or Canadian parts on any number of their enfields. Sometimes you got an all matching rifle and sometimes you got a really confusing mix master. Chances are, the latter was likely if the stamps didn't match.

I don't suspect this is the case for your rifle because CAI would not have matched any numbers for you. So this counts that out.

I suspect indian refurb. One thing they are consistent with is lack of FTR stamps when they did it. They again some of these rifles were refurbed by them on numerous occaissons. I'd have to see a few pics, then do some research and get back to you. The one thing the Indians did was force match the rifle parts. They were very consistent in this regard which again makes your rifle sounds Indian to me.

The Indians usually embedded a forestock re-enforcement screw but not always.
I wrote an article you might (or not) find interesting HERE
There are a few other articles on my blog. I'm delinquent on publishing a few reports from other projects I have on the go.
 
For Jungle Carbines, I'm presently at my 3rd and 4th. The first two I picked up in the late 60's from a local hardware store, and foolishly 'parted' with them. The present two I purchased from a shooting buddy. #3 was his Fathers, in near mint condition, matching serial numbers, that I also picked up a bayonet for.

MyJCwithbayonet.jpg


#4 was his and the condition wasn't exactly 'pristine' but all serial numbers are matching. I thought I'd clean it up and use it as a shooter and put a scope on it to help with load testing. Once cleaned up, it didn't look all that bad, and shoots fairly well. It has an after market butt stock made by Bishop, I believe, but I do have the original as well

SmokeyBobJC303Br.jpg


303BrJCBG.jpg
 
TCBF said:
- It was not directed to you. Why would you think it was? I read the 'How to post photos...' thread and went to photobucket as suggested. I felt registration there needed too much info.
Click to expand...

Sorry. I guess it was because your post/comment was the next right after I posted the pictures.

For a bit of clarification, technology and I don't march ahead at the same pace. Keeping that in mind, last year, my one and only New Years resolution was to learn how to post pictures. I made it in December, and just under the wire, with the guidence and considerable patience of H4831.

As a side issue, the resolution for this year is to 'figure out' how to use the GPS I got a couple of years ago for Christmas. My present degree of, 'learning':redface:, been busy and haven't had the time, yet:redface:. I will get at it though but the timing may be a little tight:p.
 
Johnn Peterson said:
Sorry. I guess it was because your post/comment was the next right after I posted the pictures.

For a bit of clarification, technology and I don't march ahead at the same pace. Keeping that in mind, last year, my one and only New Years resolution was to learn how to post pictures. I made it in December, and just under the wire, with the guidence and considerable patience of H4831.

As a side issue, the resolution for this year is to 'figure out' how to use the GPS I got a couple of years ago for Christmas. My present degree of, 'learning':redface:, been busy and haven't had the time, yet:redface:. I will get at it though but the timing may be a little tight:p.
Click to expand...

- Well, we are teckno twins then. I had to get my son to shoot in-focus shots of my No. 5, now I can't quite get them on this thread - yet.
 
Johnn Peterson said:
The one I have, pictured with the bayonet, has a metal tipped forend with what appears to be stamped with an F. The forend on the other isn't tipped with metal.
Click to expand...

- Perhaps, as I think Skennerton wrote, the metal tip was to protect the end-grain wood from moisture. It may also have aided upward pressure at the fore-end, though I do not know if that was an issue with the No. 5 or not.
 
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