My English sporting rifle...

Easyrider

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Here's a couple of pics of an English sporting rifle that has been in my family since at least 1891, maybe longer.
My grandfather brought this rifle with him from England when he emigrated in 1891. I have no idea if the family owned it prior to that. The maker was Wm. A Beckwith, of Skinner Street, London. The bullet mould is stamped "Registered 1 March, 1852". Google doesn't have a lot of information about Mr. Beckwith or his business. The rifle is .58 cal, the mould is a hollow based conical bullet, approximately 450 grains. The bore is poor, brown and pitted. Rifling is quite good at the muzzle, fairly slow twist. As shown in the picture, I have the original matching mould, cleaning rod, and powder measure. The trigger is single set, amazingly crisp and light. The lock also is of very high quality, functions perfectly after 160 years! The open sights are very fine, with the rear one adjustable by means of a stepped ramp.
My grandfather was a pragmatic guy, and shortly after he got to Canada, he almost immediately acquired a more modern weapon. Fortunately, he never threw anything out, either. My dad often talked about himself and his brothers using the "old muzzleloader" as a toy. The played "cowboys and aboriginal persons" (apologies to the political correctness police) with it, and as they grew up, they treated it as a shotgun, shooting pebbles, fencing staples, shingle nails, whatever was handy, out of it. Sometime in the '60's, a family friend who was an army Staff Sgt at Camp Shilo took it with him to clean it up. He was some sort of armourer or gunsmith. I don't remember what work he did to it, but he did clean it up, and pronounced it "unsafe to fire" because of barrel corrosion. He identified the wood as "kokabola", or some such. Remember, I was in early grade school, and while I was intensely interested, I don't remember accurately. Aside from the obvious, it is lovely! OBTW, some of you hawkeyed observers will undoubtedly notice that the nipple is missing. My dad was always afraid that I would load it up and fire it, killing myself and wrecking the rifle, so he broke it off flush with the breech plug. He was a shrewd judge of character.
Anyone with knowledge, I would appreciate your sharing. I am having tech difficulties tonight, but I will post more pics soon, including proof marks.
I have been very gratified by the interest all of you have shown in my other posts and pics. I offer these with respect, and hope you find them interesting.

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I bet that if you really set your mind to it you could get that broken nipple out, would be a good test of your character being that you're an adult now. Just sayin'
 
Your maker, William Andrew Beckwith, was in business from 1808-1865, and located at the Skinner St. address from 1810-1861, according to Boothroyd's directory. " He was a master of the Gunmakers Company in 1808, 1814, 1825 and 1840.

Given it's origins and time frame, I doubt the wood in your stock is cocobola. It's most likely true English walnut. If you can get the nipple fixed, I wouldn't give up on the idea of firing it, but get it to a good gunsmith that has some knowledge of these older guns. I know a fellow I would trust here in Ontario, but you're quite a distance away and I don't know how you would feel about shipping it.

I would much rather hunt with something like that, with some history and character than these so-called modern muzzloaders.
 
Easyrider that is a great story and a wonderful piece of family history and a treasure, Thank you for sharing. I know what that gun must mean to you, I have two muzzel loaders of my Great Grandfathers a double rifle- shot gun he brought from Bavaria in 1840 when he landed in New York and one 1840,s well made American double shotgun he bought maybe in New York before making his way to the wilds of Ontario, aparently they had some stories to tell. When I was a youngen there was no way my Uncle would let me touch those guns. Now I can :) they are the most precious guns in my collection. As 9.3 mauser says don,t give up on the idea of firing it if you can get the nipple replaced and really checked out, to me just from your pics it looks to be in pretty fine shape yet. Very nice. Cheers
 
9.3 Mauser, that's an interesting thought, I had just sort of assumed that S/Sgt Wolfenden knew what he was talking about, but It might indeed be worth having someone check it out. My dad would sure be pissed at you! What is the name of your gunsmith, just in case? Does anyone else know of a reputable gunsmith in Manitoba/eastern Sask who is knowledgable about antiques?

OBTW, Mauser, thanks for the research. Mr. Beckwith had a long career! I'm sure he saw some evolving technology during those years.
I actually have been thinking about buying a Green Mountain barrel and putting the rifle to work that way. I am pretty sure I could find a breech plug that could be made to fit. Another possibility is a new repro. I have made some enquiries about custom rifles, but I hate spending the money. The House of Muskets sells a kit that looks pretty good. That would save me a few dollars, and I would have the fun of building it.

BSA Jack, let's see some pictures!
 
I think you could get the base of the nipple out with a small easy out; the square kind not the reverse screw. Try soaking the breach end of the barrel in penetrating oil for a week or two. You will probably have to drill the nipple hole larger to fit the easy out which also means you need a oxy propane or oxy acetylene torch with a welding tip to heat the nipple fairly hot and locally to anneal it. If the penetrating oil does not work then heat the nipple and snail and try again.
If it is an english gun, the nipple threads are probably 26 per inch which means making a custom nipple on a lathe.

cheers mooncoon
 
I think you could get the base of the nipple out with a small easy out; the square kind not the reverse screw. Try soaking the breach end of the barrel in penetrating oil for a week or two. You will probably have to drill the nipple hole larger to fit the easy out which also means you need a oxy propane or oxy acetylene torch with a welding tip to heat the nipple fairly hot and locally to anneal it. If the penetrating oil does not work then heat the nipple and snail and try again.
If it is an english gun, the nipple threads are probably 26 per inch which means making a custom nipple on a lathe.

cheers mooncoon
Easyrider, I endorse mooncoons post 100 % , from my years of being an old gun fixer and dumb old mechanic, I have gotten out some pretty rusted up stuff with easyouts, the secret is patience, soak as he says, (I like nut cracker penetrating oil) but there is others. Buy the best easyout (snap- on) make sure the hole you drill is correct for easy out, remember the easy out will be small, Don,t drive it in too hard, it binds the threads, don,t get rammy turning on the easyout, you will break it -heat as he says try just a little - right hand thread-- don,t heat with easyout in hole. then patience, even if you think it,s moved put it away to soak for another week. It doesn,t hurt to put pressure on it clockwise as well, the idea is just to break that rust so the penetrating oil can work it,s way in. If all fails, you probably can drill and tap for a bigger shank nipple, I haven,t looked for nipples for years, someone else on here should have some ideas what might work.
I think you have to do this, :) I think you want to :) I think secretly you want to shoot this gun again as your Grandfather and Dad did, maybe not with fence staples, rocks etc. :rolleyes: Get that bore checked out, I blew up your pics , from the outside sure looks pretty good. Nothing new would give you the pleasure of maybe being able to fire this old gun. as 9.3 mauser says---- Quote-- I would much rather hunt with something like that, with some history and character than these so-called modern muzzloaders. The vension would taste preety special . Cheers
 
Re the nipples; they are easy to make on a lathe but at the same time don't be surprised to find they are an unusual diameter. Also if the threads (in the gun) are badly rusted, you can make an oversized tap and chase the threads out to bright metal and make a nipple to match. Make your increments in thread diameter about .010". Basically turned a screw thread on a piece of drill rod, heat it red hot and quench spinning then use a dremel fiber reinforced cutting wheel to cut about 3 flutes and then draw the temper to golden brown to dark brown. The reason for cutting the flutes after hardening and before drawing the temper is that they leave bright metal to watch for colour

cheers mooncoon
 
I believe that the new nipple would be available here. It is too bad you are in Manitoba as one of the best old time gunsmiths is located in London Ontario. Best fluid to soak it in has proven to be 1/2 transmission fluid and 1/2 acetone. When heating it be aware that the bolster is silver soldered in place so too much heat is not good. Good luck and do shoot it after a new nipple is installed. Dave
 
Greetings-Had a similar piece a few years back made in Scotland. It was called a "stalking rifle" when I acquired it. It is .54 cal and I shot it with 45 grains fffg and .535 ball for target use and outside of a rainbow trajectory it was reasonably accurate. Nice piece to own. Sold mine for 900- at the time so yours would be there or more for value I would think. Cheers
 
I believe that the new nipple would be available here.

that is only true if they are a standard pitch and a standard diameter. I would expect the thread to by 26 tpi which is a british national fine pitch, but the diameter could be anywhere from .240 to .260 or something different yet if the threads have been chased out before. Because nipples only have 3 or 4 threads and because 26 and 28 tpi are similar, there is a temptation to use 1/4 x 28 and force it a little. I think that is a mistake and can lead to a nipple blowing out

cheers mooncoon
 
1. Over here in yUK Peter Dyson could make a replacement nipple for you.

2. With regard to removing it - all the previous notes apply, especially those from mooncoon, but you may care to try upending the barrel, plugging the nipple with a toothpick and filling it with Kroil. Leave it a week and try it.

tac

PS - BTW- here in UK 'stalking' is what you do when you 'hunt' deer - hence 'deerstalker' headgear as worn by Mr Holmes, and 'stalking weekends in the Highlands. Not illegal shadowing of nubile young ladies. 'Hunting' involves dressing up in fancy red and white duds, called 'pinks' and chasing a fox [substitute] over the landscape.

PPS - beeeeyoootiful rifle.
 
Thanks for the advice. Some dandy ideas. I am not too worried about getting the nipple out. I am a farmer, and I run older equipment, so I do lots of this sort of thing, although usually on heavier stuff, ie combine or tractor or air seeder repairs. In any case, I know enough to recognize that most of the advice here is quite knowledgeable. As far as a new nipple, I have a lathe and a nipple isn't a terribly complex thing to make. I haven't cut threads in a while, but its fairly straight forward. But we are getting ahead of ourselves; gotta determine whether it is in fact fit to fire. Dantforth, can you pm me with the gunsmith's contact information. I have one other suggestion already, also in Ontario. I am not too worried about shipping the rifle, I've never had one get lost yet, although I had a bass guitar spend a couple of weeks in a UPS warehouse once, but that's another story...
 
I would think that the only part of that octagon barrel that "could" render it unsafe is the breach plug, or more accurately the threading of such. If the threads are worn, gas will cut through into the stock, this you don't want. Simply restore the threads, new plug, weld on the new tang...new nipple, powder, ball...rock and roll. :) Repair it and shoot it, you owe it to your ancestors...remember, they would {and did} do it for you;)
 
The old nipple is out. I squirted a little wd40 on it, found a metric allen wrench that was just right, tapped it into the hole, and backed it out with my fingers. Quite loose, actually. A grease nipple screwed in by hand, but I am guessing that as mooncoon suggested, the threads are close, but not exact. There is an excellent machine shop here, run by a Welsh millwright. I will go see him, and he will identify it and likely have a die. That might not solve the problem, though, if the female threads in the breech plug are the reason it's loose. The nipple mic's 0.24, though, so likely at least some of the wear is on the nipple.
This is a job for spring, however. We head for the beach as soon as the turkey is eaten, and we're gone till the end of March. Got some serious surfing to do.
 
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