My Entry Level PRS Gun?

EHG

EHG

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I remember being around F-Class matches in 1989 on and it was a new thing. F-Class has been refined into a Top Fuel competition these days.
It happens and equipment races are inevitable.

So I decided to build me an entry class PRS gun. I do all my smithing now, but find a lack of ranges in eastern Ontario for PRS events. It's hard to get out to a match when you're busy working all summer, but will get out to Meaford this summer with this.

Bought a Rem 700 6.5 Creedmoor barreled action off a fellow CGN'r and ordered a McMillan A5 and Accuracy Mag M5 style from Gary @ Bighorn.
Milled in the M5 mag assembly and pillar bedded it.
I have no intention of actually blueprinting the action until I actually install a custom barrel first. Just want to try it from the factory as is with some mods.
Rebushed the firing pin hole as there was too much primer pucker and wanted the .062" firing pin tip. You can see the pressed in bushing installed in the bolt with just a hint of the endmill touching the boltface to preserve the headspace. When the bolt was setup in the jig the back lugs were square so need to remove any material.
I machined off the original bolt knob and made an aluminum one which I prefer. I find the after market ones too big for my liking. After a little slicking up, the bolt will open with one finger.
Trigger is the original Mark-X Pro which I tuned and will reliably go down to less than 1.5 lbs crisp, but set @ 2 lbs for now.
Installed a cheap brake I got on eBay for $30 for an AR15 in 1/2x28 threads which I bored out and threaded to 5/8x24 and opened the bore for 6.5mm bullets and added a crush washer.

The things which I do not know are because I've never been to a PRS match are this.

How many bags do you buy to figure out what works for you?
I have a Leupold SFP scope on now, but will a range finder be a cheaper option until I can afford those uber expensive FFP scopes that the pros use?
Do you still use a range finder with your FFP scope?
How many 5 or 10 rd mags needed?

Too friggin' cold lately to test it out will report back with handloads in future and maybe a custom barrel if this won't perform.

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I shot my first PRS match last year using a rifle similar to your setup using my 2nd focal nightforce nxs. I bought a few bags that I figured I'd need but basically nothing more than a rear bag. Most competitors are happy to lend you gear so you can get a feel for what you need based on your skills. I have since changed rifles and optics many times since my first match but I can honestly say that none of the gear and scopes changed the way I have shot. The biggest thing is know your dope and you rifle/scope and it won't matter. As for mags I only carry 2 10 rounders and my rangefinder rarely leaves my pack. Learning to read wind on the fly has been my biggest disadvantage but if you know your rifle and scope you don't need to get caught up in the gear race. The PRS community is amazing and always willing to help another shooter regardless of skill level. I'm a newbie and i enjoy getting out to shoot with everyone and having fun always learning. Good luck! You'll enjoy the sport.
 
Ditch the SFP as soon as you can. FFP is a must.

I'd save for a better scope before getting a rangefinder. Every PRS match I have been to has had the distances in the course of fire booklet.

You only really need two bags. A coke can sized rear bag and a 12x12x8 pump pillow. The gamechanger is great, but only really useful in a handful of stages, and you can get by without it.

3x magazines. Most stages are 12 rounds, so two magazines at least. Even in the unlimited round stages, shooting more than 20 rounds in 90 seconds is hard. So you only need two plus a spare.

I'd also suggest upgrading to a decent brake. A generic ebay special isn't going to work as well, and spotting your splash and trace makes things soooo much easier.
 
I agree with both of the above. There are lots of decent FFP scopes that are not too expensive. Older Bushy Tacticals are good and the new ones are not that bad either, Vortex PST Gen IIs, Athlons, etc.

I actually use my gamechanger for a bunch of stuff (rear bag too) but as Alpheus said you do not need it.

PRS can be a gear race (I play that game but I like the toys) but it does not have to be. I often buy the stuff and play with it but may or may not actually use it.

Looks like you are well set up for it.
 
Ditch the SFP as soon as you can. FFP is a must. I'd save for a better scope before getting a rangefinder. Every PRS match I have been to has had the distances in the course of fire booklet.
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If you know the distance beforehand wouldn't an SFP work just as well? All your vertical scope adjustments can be written on an arm band or taped to the stock.

Also, I would like to know what is the size of an FFP reticle at max power, and you are tasked to shoot beyond 1000 yards.
 
Terry Perkins said:
If you know the distance beforehand wouldn't an SFP work just as well? All your vertical scope adjustments can be written on an arm band or taped to the stock.

Also, I would like to know what is the size of an FFP reticle at max power, and you are tasked to shoot beyond 1000 yards.
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With an SFP scope, the reticle mils/moa hash marks are only correct at a certain magnification, usually Max mag if I remember correctly (I don't have an SFP scope).

You will shoot different stages at different magnifications, and rarely will you ever shoot a stage on full magnification, if ever. So if 1 mil is only truly one mil at 25x, what is it at 10x magnification? How would I hold 1.3 mils on 12x? And then 1.6 mils for the next target, and so on.

If the hash marks aren't truly 0.5 and 1.0 mils at other magnification ranges beside maximum power, how are you going to apply the proper wind hold?

An SFP scope just makes things more complicated for this type of shooting. Not only will you be fighting the wind, but now you will be fighting your equipment to get the proper wind hold.
 
And you don't need to shoot on full power at 1,000 yards. You will find the vast majority of PRS shooters will shoot in the mag range of 10-16x, including targets at 1,000 yards and beyond.

Magnification doesn't help as much as you would think at extended ranges.
 
Terry Perkins said:
If you know the distance beforehand wouldn't an SFP work just as well? All your vertical scope adjustments can be written on an arm band or taped to the stock.

Also, I would like to know what is the size of an FFP reticle at max power, and you are tasked to shoot beyond 1000 yards.
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If you were only shooting at one distance at a time, you could. But, many stages have multiple targets at different distances and you often have to do things like engage them from closest to furthers with one shot each, then come back to the first and do it again. You will time out if you try dialing them. You really need to be able to hold with the reticle and you need to be able to do that at any magnification because you often need to lower the magnification in order to find the targets, then increase it in order to engage them. And the magnification that lets you still spot your own hits is often lower than where the SFP scopes subtend.

The FFP reticle is the same thickness at every magnification relative to the target (Yes, it gets bigger and smaller when you change magnification, but so does the target - they are on the same focal plane). Any of the popular FFP reticles are fine past 1000 yards. The thicker FFP reticles are 0.05 mil thick (0.17 MOA), the more popular ones are 0.03 mil thick (0.10 MOA). No issues quartering a 1/2 MOA target with that. We shot a plate rack at 1400 at the PRS Finale this year that had a 1/2 MOA plate on it.
 
For a front bag, I am really liking the game changer

For a rear bag, still working on it. Got a beer can bag (thanks to JSA tactical) and comparing to a "square" bean bag... not decided yet.

For mags, I have gone polymer. I am investigating extensions.. maybe only need to carry 1 spare???? But I would have others in the pack cause I am a klutz and plastic mags can break.

Entry into a FFP, xmas tree scope with basic zero stop, surprisingly nice glass and almost all the bells and whistles that is popular... around $700.

Double that and get all the bells and whistles and very useable/nice glass....

up to double that and you get into some really nice glass with all the bells and whistles.

Obviously, the sky is the limit wrt to price for scopes but there is a flood of stuff coming online that is surprisingly good for the costs.

If you find the rifle still bumps back too much, give me a shout as I offer an option that has made my shoulder very happy... and is NOT rear venting.

Jerry
 
Op, your set up is looking good, you'll need at least 2 ten round mags, most stages will run between 8 - 12 rounds and the odd time more. The odd time there will be a manditory mag change regardless of how many rounds the stage calls for. The game change bag is the most versatile bag I have found yet and if I had to pick only one that would be it. It can be used for anything. A ffp scope isn't a must but sure makes life easier, some stages are a no dial stage so know that your hash marks are true at any mag is a good piece of mind same with zero stop. I find with a good scope it's a buy once cry once type of thing. A range finder isn't really need as target distances are given to you instead look at spending the money on a good wind meter and learn how to use it. A lot ppl ask why we run muzzle brakes on light recoiling guns, it's not really to reduce recoil but more to do with spotting your own shots a good brake is worth its weight in gold. It looks like your running a Harris bipod which is great but consider turning yourself a set of spikes for it, you'll find them very helpful on the line. Learn your rifle and it's ballistics practice when ever you can even if it's dry fire in the living room using the couch as a barricade and enjoy the sport!
 
Lotsa good advice here.

Go FFP before you get a LRF, unless you're shooting field matches, ranges will be provided (and someone else will be checking ranges on their LRF anyways). You'll want a scope with a zero stop too (looks like you have a Mk4 hence no zero stop)

If you only buy one bag, make it a gamechanger, easily the most versatile bag out there. We sometimes have matches where you're limited to a single bag and everyone uses their gamechanger. If you get other bags as well, including your rear bag, make sure they have lightweight fill. Some companies still sell bags that are heavy as all hell, for some reason. Personally I bring a small, ultralight rear bag attached to the stock of my rifle via a qd swivel, a gamechanger and a large pump pillow to each match.

Since you can obviously machine up whatever you like, I'll second Shawn_338's suggestion that you make yourself a set of spikes for your Harris. They do make a world of difference.
 
Some great info guys.
Looks like I'll be getting a new FFP scope for sure. I already have one light rear bag, but am going to look into the Gamechanger and pillow you all have mentioned.
Didn't know the ranges were all given before the match. I'll be looking into a wind meter instead. What's a good one?
I have an older Harris with the spikes already done to it from my early F-Class days.

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Kestrel 5700 elite with AB is a great wind meter but it's pricey. Those spikes would ptobably do the trick, the ones I run are very pointy sharp so I can drive them into a barricade if I want to
 
EHG said:
I can always sharpen and shorten them up or make up some more. :)
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Yeah, sharp ones are the way to go, you just get better purchase on everything, wood, concrete, etc.

The most bare bones Kestrel I'd get is the 4000 as it does Density Altitude. I have a 5700AB as well and it's great but something like 3-4x the cost.
 
[QUOTEIf you were only shooting at one distance at a time, you could. But, many stages have multiple targets at different distances and you often have to do things like engage them from closest to furthers with one shot each, then come back to the first and do it again. You will time out if you try dialing them. You really need to be able to hold with the reticle and you need to be able to do that at any magnification because you often need to lower the magnification in order to find the targets, then increase it in order to engage them. And the magnification that lets you still spot your own hits is often lower than where the SFP scopes subtend.

The FFP reticle is the same thickness at every magnification relative to the target (Yes, it gets bigger and smaller when you change magnification, but so does the target - they are on the same focal plane). Any of the popular FFP reticles are fine past 1000 yards. The thicker FFP reticles are 0.05 mil thick (0.17 MOA), the more popular ones are 0.03 mil thick (0.10 MOA). No issues quartering a 1/2 MOA target with that. We shot a plate rack at 1400 at the PRS Finale this year that had a 1/2 MOA plate on it. ][/QUOTE]

When engaging successive targets at increasing known ranges I use my come-ups on my cheat sheet (might even memorize them), dial up, center hold, shoot. Very similar to you, in that the correct hash mark/dot has to be found each time instead of dialing as per your example. With experience the time difference should be negligible. You would have to be very comfortable with either method in order to be successful.

If the reticle is .10 moa thick at low power (100 yards), what is the reticle thickness at high power?
 
Not about correcting, you only get one shot per distance each time around and need to use the reticle in place of dialing. People have been trying to do that for more than a decade to try to get away with using SFP. It never works well and is very prone to error. That's the reality of it...

If the reticle is .10 moa thick at 5x at 100 yards, it will be 0.10 moa thick at 10x at 100 yards, it will be 0.10 moa thick at 25x at 100 yards, it will be 0.10 moa thick at 15x at 593 yards. it will be 0.10 moa thick at 7x at 1400 yards.

That is the point of FFP. The reticle is on the same focal plane as the target. It doesn't matter what the magnification is, the reticle always covers the same amount of the target at a given distance. Your reticle is getting magnified WITH the target, so the ratio doesn't change with power. To simulate how FFP works at a give distance, take a target and draw a reticle on it with a marker. Now look at the target through a scope and change the magnification. How much of the target is covered by the reticle you've drawn doesn't change when you change magnification because the reticle and the target are getting magnified together.
 
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TP, I thought the same way.... but spending some time with a FFP scope AND discussing how many stages are run, the benefits are starting to make sense.

The problem isn't that a SFP doesn't or can't be made to work, it has to do with limited time and having to do the mental gymnastics IF you need to change mag.

Do you need to change mag? Consensus is YES.... so having to dial up and down and be precise at your mag setting so that your subtension is what you expect can be a PITA.

Some stages are run without touching your turrets and distances can vary enough that you might need a lower mag for close targets and choose to go higher with the far. This one stage makes SFP problematic and on it goes.

No different then the mil units. Like you, the last many many years in MOA, changing is not something I look forward to but being in base 10 can help with the "thinking under stress" part of the game. Targets are big, relatively speaking so the speed to get to an adjustment is more important then a perfect center dope.

There is still alot I have to wrap my head around but I am jumping in with an open mind. Horses for Courses... FFP and mils fit this game better.

Jerry
 
Out west you will run into a lot of mover stages, some of them under 300 yards and up to 700-800

If you are shooting with angular leads (and you should be), you again need a FFP scope to be consistently successful.

As far as dialing being as fast as holding, it isn’t and never will be.

You are commonly shooting 3-4 targets at different distances 2-3 times each in 90–120 seconds. Glancing at your scope mounted dope card and holding on a reticle, as opposed to taking your support hand and turning a dial isn’t even a close comparison.

Some stages will have you shoot near to far one shot each, then repeat twice more. Dialing will get you half your shots away.
 
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