My M14's problem...1st stage of troubleshooting is over...more hints?

BBq_Woa!

BBq_Woa!

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Hey there.
so a while back I posted asking for tips about my M14 basically failing to feed (closing on an empty chamber) most of the time..

at the time I had it greased with pretty poor stuff (bike stuff, not good in cold weather)

I since stripped it, and used a very light amount of cold weather stuff.

i did another shoot recently, it was a bit better, but the problem was still there.

I'm thinking maybe my gas tube is gummed up a bit..
I'm going to dissasemble it and make sure it's dry..

in the meantime..do you think it could be me just using lesser powerful 7.62 nato all the time?
spring is too strong for the loads maybe? i doubt it.. so i'm banking on the gas system being wet.

i'll report on my findings.

-Derek
 
check the magazine.did you try all 3 of them?remember to rock mag in place and listen for "click".is your gas plug tight and gas assembly clean.i noticed the piston is a bit rough and may cause binding.
 
toyboy said:
check the magazine.did you try all 3 of them?remember to rock mag in place and listen for "click".is your gas plug tight and gas assembly clean.i noticed the piston is a bit rough and may cause binding.
Click to expand...

ive used all three mags and i seat it correctly yup..
yeah the piston is what i'm banking on..

i'm gonna disassemble and make sure it's dry and correct soon..(gotta eat first!)

thanks for the tips
 
oh one thing i forgot to mention
i have a recoil buffer installed.. should I try just removing that?
i've heard a few rumblings before about them doing more harm than good..
 
TRY without the buffer.... if problem no solved.... then


1)with no mag in your rifle..... pull back the oprod till it hits it's most rearward travel.... and let go...... did you feel ANY restance during the entire process? Bolt hanging up..... oprod a bit tight on it's rear of travel?
make notes...
2)now do the same but controlled and slowly pull back and slowly bring closed..... feel any slight binding?
make notes.....

then disassemble , removing stock, leave barrelled action assembled. try again, same practice as #2 above
make note of ANY resistance felt during the cycle

Now..... remove you oprod spring and guide.... repeat above process.... make notes

now inspect the oprod guide on the barrel..... is this part loose?

hold your barrelled action upside down and tip from muzzle to receiver. Op rod should move freely to it's furthest point of travel as the barrelled action tilts past 30 degrees.

IF all of the above gets a passing grade by rechecking your notes..... you can probably rule out an oprod alignment/binding problem.
I have one norc that needed work due to the oprod binding ever so slightly at it's rear most point of travel... hindering the cycling operation

other things that could be causing this problem
1) gas system is not timed to barrell's gas port
2) side to side play in the gas assembly
3) fore and aft play in the gas assembly
4) dirty/oily gas assembly
5) worn or scored gas piston

try some heavier grain commercial ammo... maybe some 165 gr or 175 gr . If the problem goes away with this ammo.... you may even just have a tight gun that needs a few hundred rounds blasted through her to lossen her up a bit :D ..... I had an old chinese sks like that..... after a 1/2 case of ammo that rifle started workin without a hitch.
 
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Have you made any mods or alterations to the gun? Swapped out any parts from the original?

You find the bolt closed, old casing ejected, but no unfired cartridge in the closed chamber?

I'm wondering if it matters which side out of the magazine it feeds the second round from? (Note that the cartridges are fed from the magazine alternating sides).
 
Grizzlypeg said:
Have you made any mods or alterations to the gun? Swapped out any parts from the original?

You find the bolt closed, old casing ejected, but no unfired cartridge in the closed chamber?

I'm wondering if it matters which side out of the magazine it feeds the second round from? (Note that the cartridges are fed from the magazine alternating sides).
Click to expand...

not always but often, it fails to feed every round . this shows that it doesn't matter what side it's feeding from.

and to answer your question, it happened with the original config (i've since changed the stock and added a scope.
 
When you lock the bolt back, and tilt the rifle forward and back, does the piston fall freely fore and aft in the gas cylinder? Just a thought on determining whether its gummed up or scored or ridged in there or not.
 
45ACPKING said:
that's a good thing, this shows you have vacuum pressure in the cylinder.
Click to expand...

I thought so...read it somewhere a long time ago..


ok well.. i cleaned up a bit.. wasnt bad at all, a tiny bit of a chimney, but nothing much..

re-assembled, did all those checks.. i did leave out the buffer though..somehow i think thats the culprit.. i just think it's too thick.

i mean..with it out the action seems to cycle to where it should. before it seemed wrong.
we'll see next time!
 
i used to recomend those buffers to guys who run scoped rifles.... but after chattin with a few more experienced guys i found that they recomend not using them as they often caused cycling issues. Would be very cool if this solves your problem cuz then you know yer rifle and it's parts are good to go ;)
 
Just out of curiosity, what ammo are you using? I've had good success with IVI 77, Federal Vital shock 150's, and some sporadic cycling problems with Sellier & Bellot's VZ (non nato) Czech ammo. I wonder if its the rough brass on the Czech ammo? Never had the scenario you describe, closed chamber and no round chambered. Only had failure to close chamber on partly chambered round and stovepipe under scope mount. Marstar buffers on both guns.
 
Grizzlypeg said:
Just out of curiosity, what ammo are you using? I've had good success with IVI 77, Federal Vital shock 150's, and some sporadic cycling problems with Sellier & Bellot's VZ (non nato) Czech ammo. I wonder if its the rough brass on the Czech ammo? Never had the scenario you describe, closed chamber and no round chambered. Only had failure to close chamber on partly chambered round and stovepipe under scope mount. Marstar buffers on both guns.
Click to expand...

i've only ever run south african non-corrosive 7.62 nato through it.


also, as for the buffer, if it runs fine with it out, what i may do it thin it and put it back. because it will have shown that it was a travel issue.

ill make it half the thickness it is and put it back in.. etc
 
Somewhere in my clinics, I'm always asked that question. The buffer and it's ability to help things.

My answer ? :rolleyes:

It's a solution to a problem that does not exist. Save your money and buy practice ammo. :evil:

I've competed for over 20 years without the stupid little thing. :50cal:

Peace be to journey
 
my rifle has a buffer...damn accurate and NEVER a ftf/fte.

Like all of us Nuts each rifle is individual...Take it out as most things in this trouble shoot point to it.
 
pitdogboy said:
my rifle has a buffer...damn accurate and NEVER a ftf/fte.

Like all of us Nuts each rifle is individual...Take it out as most things in this trouble shoot point to it.
Click to expand...

thanks for letting me know man

that makes me a bit more confident for the next shoot..

good thing is it's always totally accurate and otherwise wonderful!
just gotta get this snag out of the way! ;)
 
I'm thinking it might be a slightly mis-aligned or plugged gas port. Try to take some brake cleaner to it and make sure your gas assembly is properly aligned and tight (thanks Hungry!).

I also have a buffer and never encountered a failure to feed, shooting South-African surplus as well. YMMV
 
Gimli said:
I'm thinking it might be a slightly mis-aligned or plugged gas port. Try to take some brake cleaner to it and make sure your gas assembly is properly aligned and tight (thanks Hungry!).

I also have a buffer and never encountered a failure to feed, shooting South-African surplus as well. YMMV
Click to expand...

hmmm ok

when you say gas system aligned, do you mean the gas plug?
I've put a dowel through the bottom gas port all the way through and checked length into the barrel.
seems nice and clear and lined up.
 
Removing the action from the stock: Does the end of the op rod that is pushed by the piston, line up properly with the end of the gas cylinder? Mine don't line up exactly, a few degrees out of index, but no problems.

There are other possible issues, like the depth to which the gas plug goes in, which affects the resting point of the piston, which affects it timing to the gas port. Also, the gas port from barrel to gas cylinder need to be unobstructed. There's a fair bit of fitting to these parts. Great when it works, but you sure need to know a lot to troubleshoot and blueprint these guns. Would be nice if the buffer alone was the problem. With mine having a buffer, I can move the op rod so far rearward that the bolt actually hangs up in the receiver, so I can't imagine it needing to move any further rearward to fully eject, #### the hammer and be far enough forward to strip off another round.
 
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