My quest continues for the .303 Brit accuracy.

lyman54

lyman54

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Previously I tried cast loads which were terrible. I then loaded with .311 Speer Hot-Cor that are flat based and 24-27.5 of IMR 4198. Being flat based as the cast with GC's were I slightly expanded the mouth of the cartridge, where I believe the troubles began. I did notice that the bullets seated without sealing completely and after firing there was powder burn on the side of a lot of brass. Indicating to me at least that that the gas wasn't pushing the bullet properly with the gas escaping. I might add that I crimped beforehand to compensate for thr poor seal. Again accuracy was very .spotty. I pulled everything after thinking about this and full length sized all the brass, reprimed, added 27.5 of the same powder but this time did not expand the mouth and the Speer bullets went in nicely and tight enough as I tested with a bullet puller so won't be crimping. I'll test these ones on Friday but pretty sure they should work well. The rifle itself is accurate and I can do my part as far as old eyes go. But I think the actually seating was/is the trouble. Sorry, long post.
 
Just from memory, my receipe and what I would consider today if playing with a SMLE.

PRVI brass - strongest you can buy today

Hrn, Sierra - diameters range from 310 to 312. NO way to know what will fit your bore.

Benchmark, or Varget - Load towards 300 Savage performance. Older hodgdon manuals have great info.

CCI 200 or BR2 or Fed 210 reg or M

Lee collet neck die.... don't bother to size the case body, it will not handle the stress. When the case bulges so it is hard to chamber, toss it.

Any decent seater

Was getting sub MOA with a variety of Lee's. Mostly 312" hrn 150gr SP's at 2650fps or thereabouts.

The loading you describe is going to be irratic due to case capacity and bullet used. I never crimped and do not recommend it.

Good luck

Jerry
 
Thanks Jerry. All good info. I agree now with no crimping at least for these rifles. I full sized to basically get back to the starting point knowing that the cases won't last long this way. Tried a Lee collett die once but it wouldn't work so I'll try and adjust the full sizer to just do the neck.
 
Case mouths should be chamfered and deburred not expanded. And the correct bullet diameter is essential.
Crimping is only required for heavy recoil and lever actions. And 4198 is for jacketed bullets.
 
chamfer the case neck (i have had good luck with the steeper angled cutter) and if you are reloading use the o-ring trick to get better case life and only neck size
 
To Jerry, or whomever is knowledgeable in loading cast projectiles for .303, some literature has advocated a very slight bell on the case mouth to facilitate loading these rounds to avoid "shaving" the lead. Would you recommend or would neck sizing and a chamfer suffice?
 
inthehizzy said:
To Jerry, or whomever is knowledgeable in loading cast projectiles for .303, some literature has advocated a very slight bell on the case mouth to facilitate loading these rounds to avoid "shaving" the lead. Would you recommend or would neck sizing and a chamfer suffice?
Click to expand...

I've understood it as gotta flare the neck for cast bullets, but not for jacketed.
 
Just use a standard RCBS .303 British neck sizing die, and when the cases starts to have resistance chambering a case forming and trim die can be used to bump the shoulder back.

Below a .303 case forming die with a fired case being held in the die with my little finger. This die will not touch the neck or body of the case and will only bump the shoulder back for easy chambering.

caseformingdie_zpsd75208f9.jpg


Using this system and medium loads I have gotten as many as 32 reloadings before getting split necks.

For cast bullets and jacketed bullets you can expand the case necks with the Lyman type M die. This aids cast bullet seating and can help reduce neck runout with jacketed bullets.

mtype_zpsd7a1881f.jpg


bulletseatingflaresands_zps1aff9c57.jpg


Below the Lyman type M die expander I use on my AR15 .223/5.56 loads, the large step helps center the bullet during seating and reduces neck runout during seating.

Various3_zpsi85oz4p6.png


303 British case forming and trim die
http://www.brownells.com/reloading/reloading-dies/rifle-dies/redding-form-trim-dies-series-b-cartridges-prod35635.aspx

Lyman Rifle (M) Die 31 L (.303 British)
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/dies/rifle-die-details.php?brand=3&cartridge=36&die=76
 
The .303 cast I'll loaded thus far resemble the fourth of the diagrams, that is to say, theouth doesn't have a sharp flared edge and I have some slight mirroring/bulge of the case neck.
 
I agree with Jerry loading,the 4198 is to fast of powder for .303. I had quite good success will testing with scope using Varget Rl15 and 4064 powders
with 150 gr
303 CAL .312 150GR INTERLOCK® SP
SKU: 3120 | 100/B
311 dia. 174 gr. HPBT MatchKing & 303 CALIBER/7.7MM (.311) 150 GR. SPT
best I got was with the 150 gr and RL 15
.755 " 5 at 100y
Brass was winchester neck sized only, GM primers, seated just off lands
manitou
 
I'm going with jacketed from now on. Also going to test various loads and bullet seating of Friday. I had a 1917 SMLE that I used the Lee Loader for. With jacketed 150gr FMJBT and H4895 things worked well. Can't find H4895 now, but could get a slower burning powder than IMR4198. I did have some H414 but that's very slow maybe too slow
 
lyman54 said:
Previously I tried cast loads which were terrible. I then loaded with .311 Speer Hot-Cor that are flat based and 24-27.5 of IMR 4198. Being flat based as the cast with GC's were I slightly expanded the mouth of the cartridge, where I believe the troubles began. I did notice that the bullets seated without sealing completely and after firing there was powder burn on the side of a lot of brass. Indicating to me at least that that the gas wasn't pushing the bullet properly with the gas escaping. I might add that I crimped beforehand to compensate for thr poor seal. Again accuracy was very .spotty. I pulled everything after thinking about this and full length sized all the brass, reprimed, added 27.5 of the same powder but this time did not expand the mouth and the Speer bullets went in nicely and tight enough as I tested with a bullet puller so won't be crimping. I'll test these ones on Friday but pretty sure they should work well. The rifle itself is accurate and I can do my part as far as old eyes go. But I think the actually seating was/is the trouble. Sorry, long post.
Click to expand...

If I understand this correctly, you switched from lead bullets to Speer jacketed bullets.

The cast bullet were probably heavy? I got the best results with lead bullets of about 200 gr.

Then you switched to jacketed Speer bullets. You did not mention the weight. 150 to 180 gr, I hope. I tried the 123 gr ones and could nit get them to shoot. If you are loading jacked bullets of 150 or 180 gr, the choice of 4198 may be an issue. that is a good powder for lead bullets, but too fast for jacketed.

For 150 to 180 gr I would use 3031, 4895, 4064, Varget or RL15
 
My short venture into Cast BR showed me that case necking sizing is crucial to any success. There are no dies for the jacketed bullet that will also work for the cast bullet.

in general, you a sizing the case neck to the same diameter as the cast bullet which is LARGER then the rifle bore. Pushing a cast bullet into an undersized case leads to swagged bases and crappy results.

Sorry, the Lyman M style expander is not a solution if accuracy is desired. If any loaded case showed a bullet bulge, that one is going to shoot poorly.

For my 308 cast BR rifle, I used 303 Brit dies so I could leave my case necks around 309"/310" ID. Seating was more about aligning the bullet into the neck opening - held tight due to interference fit and stickiness of lube. A crimp was not necessary given the single loading and engraving into the lands

For the generic SMLE, the bores are so rough that cast bullets simply don't work... gas checks or not. Best to just go with a decent jacketed bullet of the correct diameter and load to moderate pressures. Many of these old girls shoot surprisingly well if the throats aren't worn out.

Jerry
 
I have had good results using fire formed neck sized brass, wheel weight 180 gr bullet from lee mold tumble lubed with alox, no gas check and 23 gr of h4895. Only combination that would give me decent results with those cast bullets. Haven't gotten into jacketed loads yet.
 
Case prep is essential, nice chamfer, no burrs, no flare and do not crimp. Gonna have a go at jacketed bullets, I have imr 4064 and 3031 on hand, should make something happen with those. Good luck on your quest, mine so far is like an epic journey!
 
I have 2 - P14's here. [One is an Epps] Also have a M1910 Ross chambered standard 303 Brit.

My pet load in the 2 standard chambered rifles is one of the following:
174-180 grainers.......4X grains of IMR 4320, 3X grains of IMR 3031, 4X grains of Norma 202, or 4X grains of RL 15.

My all time favorite bullet in my 303 rifles is the Sierra Pro-Hunter, which has been stellar for accuracy in all 3 rifles.

But, with one or another of the above powder charges, the 174 Hornady RN, the 180 Speer RN, the 180 Remington Cor-Lokt RN,
Norma's 180 grain RN, or a 180 grain Sako bullet I have all shoot very acceptable groups for hunting purposes.

In the Epps, Reloder 15 is the best overall, but Vihtavuori N150 also works well.

Regards, Dave.
 
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