I want to share the complete saga of my m1 carbine. About 2 years ago I made a post about my m1 carbine, but since the pictures are long gone and a lot has happened since I thought I would provide a finalized story.
One day while browsing the EE I came across an ad for a restricted m1 carbine, that had been posted only minutes before. It was for the price of $275 shipped (I think), coming from the East coast. Not a lot of info about the rifle, But it came with three magazines.
From the picture it had a few obvious issues. Sure as the barrel extension, the missing rear sight, replaced with the receiver ring sight. Fortunately the barrel extension was just inference fitted. The front sight for some reason was chopped in half by bubba.
Being a milsurp guy and the price that it was seemed like a win. So of course I jumped on it.
After purchasing I did some research and came to the conclusion that my rifle was a Bavarian service carbine, based upon the change in the rear sights.
After CFO approval and shipping the rifle it arrived at my door. Excitedly I opened the package. At first everything seemed great, and I was happy. But then as a closely examined the rifle (not sure how I missed it on my first look over) the serial number had been removed at some point in the distant past. I cannot remember when I received the registration certificate (before or after the rifle arrived) but the registration had the serial number “3617”. I field striped the rifle and found the serial number nowhere on the receiver. I did find the four digits stamped on the trigger guard, operating slide and the stock cutout (which was done by the Germans). By this time I’m having an O’S*** moment.
so at this time I called the CFO and explained the situation and was eventually transferred to technician at the firearms lab. He advised me the registration certificate should be changed to “no serial number” and to attach the issued sticker with the FIN number when I got it. Secondly he advised that I call my local police (in my case Edmonton Police Service) and file a complaint so it could be properly investigated.
I did both of those things the same day and by that time it was 3pm ish. At this point I had already stripped the rifle to a barreled receiver as I was cleaning all the parts or decades of grease and dirt. Also at this point I was still happy with my purchase, I felt I had more value in the parts, than I had paid. So I felt that I had purchased a parts kit at the very least.
So the day went by and I still hadn’t been contacted by EPS, I knew my complaint was low priority. So I went to bed that night thinking it would be dealt with the next day. Well at the crack of 2am the home phone began to ring, waking my dogs and children and scaring my wife half to death. It was an EPS officer wondering if I wanted to continue with my complaint now or in the morning.........
Well there were a few words I wanted to express, but I bite my tongue and told him in the morning. At 9am an officer arrived at my door told him the story and that I was happy with my purchase but basically wanted to cover my back side. He took his notes and my information and left.
After he left I decided I should remove the barrel as my anxiety got the better of me. I thought if I had to surrender the receiver I could at least keep the barrel. Well I didn’t have the proper tools for the job, so I made do with what I had. I had little concern with causing damage to the receiver since it was already defaced and if I wanted to restore it in the future it would need welding and heat treating.
Some of the damage I caused
Well I managed to remove the barrel with not a lot of effort. I did caused some damage to receiver, but repairable if I ever wanted to restore the receiver. Next thing I did was remove the solider sight to the receiver ring. I read that sometimes the “us carbine .30 cal” stamp was scrubbed to allow the sight to be installed. I wanted to know if that was done, because if it was I would have had receiver destroyed, as I felt it would not have been worth the effort to restore. A little heat from a propane torch and some light tapping the rear sight came off. The stamping looked to be in perfect condition. Next I turned my attention to the rear sight dovetail that had been filled in. A hammer and punch broke the filler piece free. Next I turned my attention to the rear sight dovetail that had been filled in. A hammer and punch broke the filler piece free.
After that had all been done, nearly a month passed by when a got a call from a constable from the RCMP with NWEST. They investigated my complaint and determined the serial number was removed prior to 1995 and bill C-68. And in their view the rifle “never” had a serial number. I got a letter from the RCMP officer that I could use should any trouble arise.
While all these events transpired I was attempting identify every single part on the rifle with its manufacturer and the type variant. Every single part on the rifle was manufactured by Saginaw “SG” with the exception of the magazine release and safety. After identifying the part “types” I determined the rifle likely had a narrow serial number range from 3310000 to 3430000.
After I received my letter from NWEST I decided I was going to play Crime scene investigator and try to determine the serial number myself. First thing I noticed was on the underside at the back of the receiver was an area that had brass rubbing between the bolt and receiver, clear as day was “Saginaw SG” but in reverse. Over the years of shooting, bits of brass were ripped from the case and rubbed on the receiver. I hoped I could achieve the same for the serial number. I attempted to rub pennies and brass cases over the area, but it did not yield any results. I then read a few articles online about using magnetic particle inspection and electro magnet and another article using an etching acid. I got a spray can of magnetic particle inspection, the budget only allowed for cheap, so I bought a strongish horseshoe magnet. My attempts on the serial number area were unsuccessful, possibly because I need a stronger magnetic field.
On a Bavarian m1 carbine the left receiver area was typicality stamped with the division the rifle was issued such as the rural police or forestry police. But that has also been scrubbed at some point in the past. Magnetic particle inspection was successful here, this carbine was issued to the Bavarian rural police, unit 67 (67 been stamped on the stock and front sight).
The magnetic particle inspection, sorry for blurry photos, but I did them 2 yrs. ago.
My next attempt was to use acid, I used fry’s reagent (which I made using hydrochloric acid and copper chloride) as I remember reading that it would provide the best results for alloy steel. Here I achieved some results, the right side the receiver I was able to determine the last two digits as “17”. I did have some pictures of this but they are lost in my computer somewhere, did manage to find one photo, where you can faintly see “1”. With the acid test I was also able to determine the third digit “1” it was clear, however again I’ve lost or deleted those photos. So based on the serial number range the likely serial number is 3313617 or 3413617.
In this photo you can faintly see “1” on the right side of the groove. Again I done have many photos as I thought I did.
And at this point the rifle sat in a locked box and a dozens pieces waiting... for nearly two years. The only hold up was budget and a new stock. I had already acquired a non-restricted barrel from Tradex, one of the citadel barrels.
I also needed a new stock, because the original one which it wore since the day it left the factory was a Trimble type 2 high wall stock, but bubba had a good time with the sand paper. The forestock near the barrel band was paper thin. I only found out after I stripped of the gloss coat bubba had put on the stock. That was really disappointing as the stock was original and impossible to find a Trimble highwall stock. The good news is the hand guard was an original to and marked TN.
The sling well was marked Trimbel TN and later marked by the Germans with its last four digits serial number and Unit number.
The Stamping of TN on the original handguard
Well then in August of 2018, I was browsing the EE and someone post an ad for a new Boyd’s m1 stock with metal and handguard (the metal just ended up being spares) for $100 shipped. This was a great deal! I bought the stock and when it arrived I decided it was time to complete this project so contacted Nick at Vulcan Gun.
I told Nick the saga and sent him the letter from the RCMP. He was confident that repairs could be made, a serial number added and the receiver heat treated. I had also wanted the restricted barrel reparkarized. I also wanted the serial numbers removed from the slide and trigger guard as this was done by the Germans. He estimated a three month turn around.
I told nick that the serial number I wanted engraved was 3413617. Because it’s the most likely what the rifles original serial number was, I wanted this rifle to have some of it heritage back. So nick contacted the CFC and got approval to use that number.
So I packed everything up in a sturdy hard Plano case and sent it off to Ontario. When Nick received the rifle he inspected the receiver and had it sent off to be laser tig welded, probably two days after he received it. Before he received the rifle he made me aware the Saginaw SG stamping may not be salvageable due to the proximity of welding for the serial number. He was right the Stamping couldn’t be saved, but he was confident that the laser engraving would look original.
The receiver also required the rear sight flats be welded, that was done at the same time as the serial number area.
After welding
I had asked nick if he had access to stock stamps appropriate for an SG stock. He did not, but the markings could be laser engraved, while not the “original look” they look great and ad back its character!
Nick also brought up the idea of engraving the new barrel with the same marking on the original barrel “General Motors Saginaw steering Gear”. I gave my approval and the barrel was engraved too.
The rifle would have originally had the flip up sight when it left the factory. Reproductions were available for reasonable prices. On eBay you can find flip up sights with the appropriate markings, however they are likely fake and bidding goes up to $200 usd. I wasn’t paying that, plus I like the adjustable rear sight, and if this rifle hadn’t gone into German service it would have likely gotten one eventually. So I bought an NOS one from eBay from a seller in France.
Well time went by and when he told me my carbine was done and he would be shipping soon. He said it had passed it test fire and functioned perfectly. I had hoped it would make it home in time for Christmas however that didn’t happen, it just in time for the New Year!
But I just wanted to share my experience and give a big thanks to Nick at Vulcan he is a true craftsman’s. I’ve had it out to the range once, it worked perfectly other than a failure to feed, which was magazine related. It was a blast to shoot and look forward to using it again.
I’ll hopefully have a video I can posted later of my range trip.
The completed rifle!
Thanks for looking, this is something I really wanted to share.
One day while browsing the EE I came across an ad for a restricted m1 carbine, that had been posted only minutes before. It was for the price of $275 shipped (I think), coming from the East coast. Not a lot of info about the rifle, But it came with three magazines.
From the picture it had a few obvious issues. Sure as the barrel extension, the missing rear sight, replaced with the receiver ring sight. Fortunately the barrel extension was just inference fitted. The front sight for some reason was chopped in half by bubba.
Being a milsurp guy and the price that it was seemed like a win. So of course I jumped on it.
After purchasing I did some research and came to the conclusion that my rifle was a Bavarian service carbine, based upon the change in the rear sights.
After CFO approval and shipping the rifle it arrived at my door. Excitedly I opened the package. At first everything seemed great, and I was happy. But then as a closely examined the rifle (not sure how I missed it on my first look over) the serial number had been removed at some point in the distant past. I cannot remember when I received the registration certificate (before or after the rifle arrived) but the registration had the serial number “3617”. I field striped the rifle and found the serial number nowhere on the receiver. I did find the four digits stamped on the trigger guard, operating slide and the stock cutout (which was done by the Germans). By this time I’m having an O’S*** moment.
so at this time I called the CFO and explained the situation and was eventually transferred to technician at the firearms lab. He advised me the registration certificate should be changed to “no serial number” and to attach the issued sticker with the FIN number when I got it. Secondly he advised that I call my local police (in my case Edmonton Police Service) and file a complaint so it could be properly investigated.
I did both of those things the same day and by that time it was 3pm ish. At this point I had already stripped the rifle to a barreled receiver as I was cleaning all the parts or decades of grease and dirt. Also at this point I was still happy with my purchase, I felt I had more value in the parts, than I had paid. So I felt that I had purchased a parts kit at the very least.
So the day went by and I still hadn’t been contacted by EPS, I knew my complaint was low priority. So I went to bed that night thinking it would be dealt with the next day. Well at the crack of 2am the home phone began to ring, waking my dogs and children and scaring my wife half to death. It was an EPS officer wondering if I wanted to continue with my complaint now or in the morning.........
Well there were a few words I wanted to express, but I bite my tongue and told him in the morning. At 9am an officer arrived at my door told him the story and that I was happy with my purchase but basically wanted to cover my back side. He took his notes and my information and left.
After he left I decided I should remove the barrel as my anxiety got the better of me. I thought if I had to surrender the receiver I could at least keep the barrel. Well I didn’t have the proper tools for the job, so I made do with what I had. I had little concern with causing damage to the receiver since it was already defaced and if I wanted to restore it in the future it would need welding and heat treating.
Some of the damage I caused
Well I managed to remove the barrel with not a lot of effort. I did caused some damage to receiver, but repairable if I ever wanted to restore the receiver. Next thing I did was remove the solider sight to the receiver ring. I read that sometimes the “us carbine .30 cal” stamp was scrubbed to allow the sight to be installed. I wanted to know if that was done, because if it was I would have had receiver destroyed, as I felt it would not have been worth the effort to restore. A little heat from a propane torch and some light tapping the rear sight came off. The stamping looked to be in perfect condition. Next I turned my attention to the rear sight dovetail that had been filled in. A hammer and punch broke the filler piece free. Next I turned my attention to the rear sight dovetail that had been filled in. A hammer and punch broke the filler piece free.
After that had all been done, nearly a month passed by when a got a call from a constable from the RCMP with NWEST. They investigated my complaint and determined the serial number was removed prior to 1995 and bill C-68. And in their view the rifle “never” had a serial number. I got a letter from the RCMP officer that I could use should any trouble arise.
While all these events transpired I was attempting identify every single part on the rifle with its manufacturer and the type variant. Every single part on the rifle was manufactured by Saginaw “SG” with the exception of the magazine release and safety. After identifying the part “types” I determined the rifle likely had a narrow serial number range from 3310000 to 3430000.
After I received my letter from NWEST I decided I was going to play Crime scene investigator and try to determine the serial number myself. First thing I noticed was on the underside at the back of the receiver was an area that had brass rubbing between the bolt and receiver, clear as day was “Saginaw SG” but in reverse. Over the years of shooting, bits of brass were ripped from the case and rubbed on the receiver. I hoped I could achieve the same for the serial number. I attempted to rub pennies and brass cases over the area, but it did not yield any results. I then read a few articles online about using magnetic particle inspection and electro magnet and another article using an etching acid. I got a spray can of magnetic particle inspection, the budget only allowed for cheap, so I bought a strongish horseshoe magnet. My attempts on the serial number area were unsuccessful, possibly because I need a stronger magnetic field.
On a Bavarian m1 carbine the left receiver area was typicality stamped with the division the rifle was issued such as the rural police or forestry police. But that has also been scrubbed at some point in the past. Magnetic particle inspection was successful here, this carbine was issued to the Bavarian rural police, unit 67 (67 been stamped on the stock and front sight).
The magnetic particle inspection, sorry for blurry photos, but I did them 2 yrs. ago.
My next attempt was to use acid, I used fry’s reagent (which I made using hydrochloric acid and copper chloride) as I remember reading that it would provide the best results for alloy steel. Here I achieved some results, the right side the receiver I was able to determine the last two digits as “17”. I did have some pictures of this but they are lost in my computer somewhere, did manage to find one photo, where you can faintly see “1”. With the acid test I was also able to determine the third digit “1” it was clear, however again I’ve lost or deleted those photos. So based on the serial number range the likely serial number is 3313617 or 3413617.
In this photo you can faintly see “1” on the right side of the groove. Again I done have many photos as I thought I did.
And at this point the rifle sat in a locked box and a dozens pieces waiting... for nearly two years. The only hold up was budget and a new stock. I had already acquired a non-restricted barrel from Tradex, one of the citadel barrels.
I also needed a new stock, because the original one which it wore since the day it left the factory was a Trimble type 2 high wall stock, but bubba had a good time with the sand paper. The forestock near the barrel band was paper thin. I only found out after I stripped of the gloss coat bubba had put on the stock. That was really disappointing as the stock was original and impossible to find a Trimble highwall stock. The good news is the hand guard was an original to and marked TN.
The sling well was marked Trimbel TN and later marked by the Germans with its last four digits serial number and Unit number.
The Stamping of TN on the original handguard
Well then in August of 2018, I was browsing the EE and someone post an ad for a new Boyd’s m1 stock with metal and handguard (the metal just ended up being spares) for $100 shipped. This was a great deal! I bought the stock and when it arrived I decided it was time to complete this project so contacted Nick at Vulcan Gun.
I told Nick the saga and sent him the letter from the RCMP. He was confident that repairs could be made, a serial number added and the receiver heat treated. I had also wanted the restricted barrel reparkarized. I also wanted the serial numbers removed from the slide and trigger guard as this was done by the Germans. He estimated a three month turn around.
I told nick that the serial number I wanted engraved was 3413617. Because it’s the most likely what the rifles original serial number was, I wanted this rifle to have some of it heritage back. So nick contacted the CFC and got approval to use that number.
So I packed everything up in a sturdy hard Plano case and sent it off to Ontario. When Nick received the rifle he inspected the receiver and had it sent off to be laser tig welded, probably two days after he received it. Before he received the rifle he made me aware the Saginaw SG stamping may not be salvageable due to the proximity of welding for the serial number. He was right the Stamping couldn’t be saved, but he was confident that the laser engraving would look original.
The receiver also required the rear sight flats be welded, that was done at the same time as the serial number area.
After welding
I had asked nick if he had access to stock stamps appropriate for an SG stock. He did not, but the markings could be laser engraved, while not the “original look” they look great and ad back its character!
Nick also brought up the idea of engraving the new barrel with the same marking on the original barrel “General Motors Saginaw steering Gear”. I gave my approval and the barrel was engraved too.
The rifle would have originally had the flip up sight when it left the factory. Reproductions were available for reasonable prices. On eBay you can find flip up sights with the appropriate markings, however they are likely fake and bidding goes up to $200 usd. I wasn’t paying that, plus I like the adjustable rear sight, and if this rifle hadn’t gone into German service it would have likely gotten one eventually. So I bought an NOS one from eBay from a seller in France.
Well time went by and when he told me my carbine was done and he would be shipping soon. He said it had passed it test fire and functioned perfectly. I had hoped it would make it home in time for Christmas however that didn’t happen, it just in time for the New Year!
But I just wanted to share my experience and give a big thanks to Nick at Vulcan he is a true craftsman’s. I’ve had it out to the range once, it worked perfectly other than a failure to feed, which was magazine related. It was a blast to shoot and look forward to using it again.
I’ll hopefully have a video I can posted later of my range trip.
The completed rifle!
Thanks for looking, this is something I really wanted to share.
