Mystery rifle (pics)

RMXC51

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The only marks I can find on this rifle are "6.5mm" on top of the barrel and a small star behind the bolt. It takes 6.5 Mann Shoen and is not in good shape. Loads through the top from stripper clips, which fall out a hole in the bottom of the magazine after the last round (I'm told). Any other info on this old timer?

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I have the same rifle, welded front sight and all, Its a Carcano, And a rough one at that, Its probably worth about 20$ Shoots 6.5x52, Even my grooving on the handle are the same. Mine has an extra wooden peice bubba's on, i'll dig up a pic, If you would like to peice it out let me know

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Eaton's Carcano

Looks like an Eaton's Carcano to me. The fixed rear sight and double trigger were standard on these. Your rifle is missing the rear trigger.

A CGN member who attended an Gun Auction with me last week bought one in better shape than yours. I think he paid $30 for it. It had the two triggers.

CAUTION --- SOME OF THESE WERE RECHAMBERED FOR 6.5 MANNLICHER SCHOENER CARTRIDGE BECAUSE C.I.L. WAS MAKING IT AT THE TIME.

Many people detract the Carcano. Some of the long barreled rifles were made with gain twist rifling, and were very accurate. Unfortunately, when cut to sporter length, the gain twist was lost, and accuracy suffered. The Italian Military shooting team once used the Carcano to kick the Americans butt and outshoot the Garands and M-14s.

With the shape your rifle looks in, I would not fire it.
 
Eaton's Carcano

Looks like an Eaton's Carcano to me. I'm not certain, but I beleive they were sporterized by Cooey. Someone might be able to clear that up. The fixed rear sight and double trigger were standard on these. Your rifle is missing the rear trigger.

A CGN member who attended an Gun Auction with me last week bought one in better shape than yours. I think he paid $30 for it. It had the two triggers.

CAUTION --- SOME OF THESE WERE RECHAMBERED FOR 6.5 MANNLICHER SCHOENER CARTRIDGE BECAUSE C.I.L. WAS MAKING IT AT THE TIME.

Many people detract the Carcano. Some of the long barreled rifles were made with gain twist rifling, and were very accurate. Unfortunately, when cut to sporter length, the gain twist was lost, and accuracy suffered. The Italian Military shooting team once used the Carcano to kick the Americans butt and outshoot the Garands and M-14s.

With the shape your rifle looks in, I would not fire it.
 
Thanks for the help guys. It IS chambered for 6.5 Mann Schoen, for sure. And I wouldn't fire it under any circumstances, I just wondered what it was, with no markings and all. The owner thought it was Austrian military surplus due to the round it is chambered for. But the Eaton's route makes sense.
 
Definitely a Cooey Carcano or Eatons' Carcano: same beast entirely.

They were surplus Italian Model 1891 long rifles from the Great War which Cooey modded considerably. The barrel itself uses the original Italian chamber, with a new section threaded on ahead of that. Sounds insane but it works fine just so long as the correct ammo is used and no flaming IDIOT takes out the securing screw and gives it to his cat to play with. The Cooey barrel is considerably heavier than the original tube and the rifling is very different. It is also constant-twist.

Carcano actions are often dismissed as weak. The fact is that they are extremely strong for the amount of material in them. They are very solid and an extremely accurate rifle can be built around a spare Carcano action, should you have such lying around. The bolt is a modded Mauser type with the unique Carcano safety which locks the action solid AND takes compression off the mainspring at the same time. They feed through a special 6-round Mannlicher clip which can be inserted either-side-up. The magazine slot in the bottom is very narrow and the left rail is very solid: all the basis points for a very accurate rifle.

ALL Carcano barrels were gain-twist except the Model 1941 and, of course, the Canadian-barreled Cooey variant. The Cooeys were fitted with a nice set of double set-triggers which most people seem to have ripped off about an hour after they got the rifles home. Too bad; they can shoot very well.

There were 'issues' with the Cooey variant and reports of injuries and even a death, mostly because the correct ammo was not available. Dominion made a special run of the right ammo about 1930 but by that time it was too late. Eaton's called in the remaining Cooey Carcanos, but a few specimens did manage to escape. Yours is one. The special ammo was sold in pink boxes of 20 rounds and cartridges were headstamped only "R" at 12 o'clock,"6.5m/m" at 6 clock.

There is a thread in THIS forum on a test-to-destruction of one of these rifles.It is VERY impressive in its thoroughess and also in the ability of the rifle to handle abuse.

These are an almost-forgotten incident in Canadian history. The Cooey Carcano actually gave ALL 6.5mm rifles such a bad name that, 35 years later, I was told flat-out that I was completely insane and suicidal.... because I bought a 6.5mm rifle! A year later, Kennedy was shot with a 6.5 and people started rethinking their prejudices, but it was too late for this interesting little rifle.
 
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There has been a lot of discussion about these "Cooey Carcanos" made for Eatons between the wars. Here's a recent one:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=476163

There has been a huge myth industry built up about these guns based almost solely on the existence of "special ammo". Aside from that ammo, there is nothing but conjecture and hearsay. As for the top myths - it is now generally admitted that there was no recall (no records of it and thousands are floating around), there are no records of injuries or deaths, and the barrel is not held in by a set screw - it is threaded in and indexed with a set screw like modern Savages, and all the ones I've dissassembled could have done without the set screw as after 75+ years the threads were exceptionally tight.

I know that the action is very strong as I've tested one. That doesn't make it a good candidate for a sporting rifle, but it's not weak.
 
Andy, thank you for posting that link> I have been using computers for a number of years but, being honest, to me they are a typewriter with a memory; there is still a lot I don't know.... and links is a part of what I don't know.

I have 2 rounds of that "special" ammo for the Cooey/Eaton's Carcanos and I also have known Carcano rounds by WCC, GFL, SMI.... and my M&W micrometer and calipers can't tell them apart.

BUFFDOG and I attended the same auction at Meyers' in Arden and I bought another to complement the very sad one I already had. It has the set triggers intact and functional and working rather nicely. It WILL be shot, even though it is ALMOST too pretty to shoot. I bought it as a "Mannlicher" and paid 50 bucks for it. Little bit of work on the front sight and it will be like the day it was made.

I will be shooting it with fresh Carcano brass (Trade-Ex) and Remington slugs. If you see a mushroom cloud over top of Wolverine's range next Spring, you will know where to come and pick up the pieces...... but I have every confidence that the rifle will be coming home in 1 piece exactly. These are a lovely little rifle, just requiring a bit of caution as regards the set-screw and a bucket of TLC to offset 80 years of neglect.

They are a perfectly valid piece of CANADIAN FIREARMS HISTORY.
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Should have mentioned.... I am aware of ONE injury from shooting with one of these rifles. That injury occurred in this area, about 80 years ago.

I think that part of the problem was the similarity between the 6.5 MC and the 6.5 MS rounds. Many Carcanos are chambered deep enough to handle the MS round, but NOT ALL. You can see the possibilities: LONG round in SHORT chamber, pressure spike on firing, gas leak and people panic. The 6.5 MS cartridge was made in Canada from a very early time and was available in every hardware in the country.... then along come a batch of rifles which will ALMOST handle it.

You can see the problem raise its ugly head.

I DO know that the "special ammo" measures well within Carcano specs but NOT within MS specs. They ARE different, but not very much: just enough to prevent something ugly.

Hope this helps.
 
i have one of these rifles as well in about the same condition or abit better than the one shown. mine however has both triggers. Is the value the same?
 
Desporteriser, as usual, is right.

Firing original Carcano rounds in one of the Cooey/Eaton's rifles could get ugly.

The opposite, small bullet in big bore, would not be accurate. This likely is why Carcanos don't have much of a reputation for accuracy, although they can be positively frightening if fired with bullets which FIT. Try running your .280 Remington rifle on .270 slugs and you'll get the idea.

I have ONE accurate Carcano. This is Model 1941 with a VERY tight tube. It gets 1 MOA with Remington 140 flatbase .264" slugs. I now have the correct Carcano slugs (thank God and Trade-Ex; they were on order for 4 years through a local shop) and so the original 1917, 1918, 1935 and 1942 rifles will be back on the range soon, so we will see what they can do.
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i love those little cooey sporters, ive got three complete ones. one thing ive found is there seems to be alot of varying front sights on all of them.

the stocks get busted up badly too. if you look at the pistol grip you can follow one line of checkering and it wraps right around the rear of the grip. when eatons had the rifles cut down, a flat was cut on the bottom of the wrist and the pistol grip attached there. makes for a delicate assembly and often these are found cracked at the rear of the receiver and/or broke through right through the wrist of the stock.

other wood work included filling the cleaning rod hole and rear swivel area with peices that were left over from the bubba'd wood.

if anyone has any cheap part guns they dont want anymore, im always adopting more :D
 
About 20 years ago I was given one with double set triggers. I was given a box of Dominion 6.5MM MS with it. I found they were a tight fit. I bought a set of 6.5Carcano dies and a case trimmer and trimmed the cases to Carcano specs. Nice little rifle, action is rough, sights suck but she's accurate.
 
Many people detract the Carcano. Some of the long barreled rifles were made with gain twist rifling, and were very accurate. Unfortunately, when cut to sporter length, the gain twist was lost, and accuracy suffered. The Italian Military shooting team once used the Carcano to kick the Americans butt and outshoot the Garands and M-14s.

Unfortunately Ostwald found this good shooter

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