Neck resizing and body / shoulder setback dies

OldDude

OldDude

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I've got a bunch of brass out of one of my rifles that I plan to neck resize with a Lee collet die, and set back the shoulder a couple of thou if needed. Sometimes the strangest thoughts come to me: should I bump the shoulder or neck size first? Does it matter?

I'm thinking I might be better off body sizing first, since I would neeed to clean the lube off in the tumbler, and seated primers keep primer pcokets from getting filled up. Is there any reason to do it the otherway around?

Your thoughts?
 
shoot_to_kill said:
If you are just firing out of one gun. I would full length size all brass first then after once fired you can neck size. Otherwise it may not chamber, or have a stiff to close bolt
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This batch of brass is all fired from the one bolt action rifle. I was just thinking ahead to where I might have difficulty chambering after a couple of firings. It has already been through my gun.
 
OldDude said:
I've got a bunch of brass out of one of my rifles that I plan to neck resize with a Lee collet die, and set back the shoulder a couple of thou if needed. Sometimes the strangest thoughts come to me: should I bump the shoulder or neck size first? Does it matter?

I'm thinking I might be better off body sizing first, since I would need to clean the lube off in the tumbler, and seated primers keep primer pcokets from getting filled up. Is there any reason to do it the otherway around?

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

If all of the brass that you are working with has been fired from that gun & this is a Target Rifle... then do this.

De-prime and clean.

Anneal and lube.

Use a quality re-sizing full length die (i.e Redding type-S die).
Set die up such that the shoulder is bumped back just enough that the bolt will pretty much close on its own..... the magic bump number could be .001.. .0015.... 0.003 ?
who knows..depends on your chamber and action.
gotta do the tests.

The gist: just use a quality full length die to bump shoulders and re-size necks simultaneously.
Doing each step individually, IMO, is a fools errand.

Whether I am right in the above, or wrong in the above, if you are doing a long range precision reload, then you're better off spending more time at the range learning to read flags, than pouring over your press at home.
 
OldDude if you are going to use the LCD you should have a body die to bump with. I normally use a Redding Body die. The combo will produce some good ammo. I like it with a Forster Bench Rest Seater.
Good luck.
 
I have not used my collet dies in a long time.
I just full length and bump the shoulder .001 and test fit for bolt closing.
I also use Redding competition shell holders, they work well for me.
I also use Lyman M dies for neck expanding rather than pull the neck back over the regular expander.
Just another step in the process, but that's what I do.
 
Pescado said:
OldDude if you are going to use the LCD you should have a body die to bump with. I normally use a Redding Body die. The combo will produce some good ammo. I like it with a Forster Bench Rest Seater.
Good luck.
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I have the Lee full size die that came with teh four die set, and an RCBS full size die as well. I've acquired a Redding body die recently with the thought of separating steps, maybe to get the best of both plans (neck vs. full sizing).
 
Jerry's method is the best for what you have there to use for dies. Then there is the Forster neck/bump bushing die, which will bump the shoulder only, and size the neck according to what bushing you put in it. It has somewhat limited uses for some folk perhaps, but, it can save a lot of work in lubing and cleaning cases, if you don't want or need to do FLS.
 
Mystic Precision said:
Redding body die... tumble to remove lube... then run through the Lee collet neck die. That is how I have been processing my match brass for many many years.

Works great.

Jerry
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I do the same thing with one of my rifles because when I bought it, those were the dies that came with it.:cool:
That way I don't have to mess around with changing the dies for my other match rifle.
Cat
 
Another trick is to match a shellholder to the body die setting so you have hard metal to metal contact. That way it is dead easy to set up or to sell to another shooter.

Alas, barrels don't last long enough to do this too often but sometimes it can be handy.

Jerry
 
OldDude said:
This batch of brass is all fired from the one bolt action rifle. I was just thinking ahead to where I might have difficulty chambering after a couple of firings. It has already been through my gun.
Click to expand...

If you're going to shoot them out of the same rifle, I would just trim the case mouths to keep the overall lengths within the rifle's parameters and not worry about resizing the shoulders every time, until you get a few that don't chamber properly.

I've got some 60 year old Dominion cases for one of my 30-06 rifles that have only been set back a couple of times and they've been fired well over 60 times. The only special treatment they get is full case annealing every half dozen or so shots.

The odd one will give the bolt a bit of resistance on closing and when that happens, time for the oven treatment and they all get chucked up into the case head holder on the lathe and trimmed to a specific length.

I've neve had one fail to feed or chamber completely. Cleanliness of the chamber and ammo is very important.
 
bearhunter said:
If you're going to shoot them out of the same rifle, I would just trim the case mouths to keep the overall lengths within the rifle's parameters and not worry about resizing the shoulders every time, until you get a few that don't chamber properly.

I've got some 60 year old Dominion cases for one of my 30-06 rifles that have only been set back a couple of times and they've been fired well over 60 times. The only special treatment they get is full case annealing every half dozen or so shots.

The odd one will give the bolt a bit of resistance on closing and when that happens, time for the oven treatment and they all get chucked up into the case head holder on the lathe and trimmed to a specific length.


I've neve had one fail to feed or chamber completely. Cleanliness of the chamber and ammo is very important.
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That's the plan!!!
 
Why not just buy a full length die and set it to bump the shoulder back a couple thou. When you neck size only the body keeps growing. Eventually you’ll have to FL size anyway, so why not just do it every time. That way your capacity and pressures are ALWAYS the same.
 
Canuck65 said:
Why not just buy a full length die and set it to bump the shoulder back a couple thou. When you neck size only the body keeps growing. Eventually you’ll have to FL size anyway, so why not just do it every time. That way your capacity and pressures are ALWAYS the same.
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FL dies are prone to runout, even when partially resizing. Hence the body die/neck sizer approach. Additionally, when using the neck sizing die only, no lube is required - makes life easier.
 
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cosmic said:
FL dies are prone to runout, even when partially resizing. Hence the body die/neck sizer approach. Additionally, when using the neck sizing die only, no lube is required - makes life easier.
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This /\

With modern CNC machining dies are usually acceptable for what the average shooter requires and likely better.

However, this isn't the case when shooters are looking for that one hole group on a consistent and controllable basis.

When brass cases re fireformed for one chamber or even several chambers cut with the same reamer to exacting tolerances, brass doesn't flow as much when only the necks are sized and there is less wear and tear on the cases, even if they're loaded hot.

Bench Rest shooters found this out a long time ago.

Fire forming cases to fit into several or even a couple of different rifles, with slightly different chambers is a recipe for disaster on a hunting trip and that's one of the reasons there are so many proponents of full length resizing for all hunting applications.

I've seen rifles that will shoot anything they're fed with off the shelf new commercial ammunition, extremely well. If you have one, keep it because it's a JEWEL.

Not always but they mostly have tight chambers, that are reamed almost exactly aligned with the axis of the bore and their bolt faces, locking lugs are square to the axis of the bore.

Modern ammunition, is better than ever, especially the premium types.

There was a time, not that long ago when 4 inches with factory ammo our of an off the shelf rifle was considered to be acceptable at 100yds.

Today, many manufacturers, even of mass produced firerms, guarantee ONE inch or less accuracy WITH SPECIFIED AMMO. This was only available from ''custom'' builders at one time.

Most new manufacture rifles will deliver sub two inch groups at 100 yards with off most off the shelf ammo. Just fine for hunting out to 300yds, which is about the max 95% of shooters should shoot. If you're one of those nimrods that insists on taking head shots, FIFTY YARDS should be maximum
 
bearhunter said:
This /\

With modern CNC machining dies are usually acceptable for what the average shooter requires and likely better.

However, this isn't the case when shooters are looking for that one hole group on a consistent and controllable basis.

When brass cases re fireformed for one chamber or even several chambers cut with the same reamer to exacting tolerances, brass doesn't flow as much when only the necks are sized and there is less wear and tear on the cases, even if they're loaded hot.

Bench Rest shooters found this out a long time ago.

Fire forming cases to fit into several or even a couple of different rifles, with slightly different chambers is a recipe for disaster on a hunting trip and that's one of the reasons there are so many proponents of full length resizing for all hunting applications.

I've seen rifles that will shoot anything they're fed with off the shelf new commercial ammunition, extremely well. If you have one, keep it because it's a JEWEL.

Not always but they mostly have tight chambers, that are reamed almost exactly aligned with the axis of the bore and their bolt faces, locking lugs are square to the axis of the bore.

Modern ammunition, is better than ever, especially the premium types.

There was a time, not that long ago when 4 inches with factory ammo our of an off the shelf rifle was considered to be acceptable at 100yds.

Today, many manufacturers, even of mass produced firerms, guarantee ONE inch or less accuracy WITH SPECIFIED AMMO. This was only available from ''custom'' builders at one time.

Most new manufacture rifles will deliver sub two inch groups at 100 yards with off most off the shelf ammo. Just fine for hunting out to 300yds, which is about the max 95% of shooters should shoot. If you're one of those nimrods that insists on taking head shots, FIFTY YARDS should be maximum
Click to expand...

Most top benchrest and fclass shooters in the US use a full length bushing die. Harrels dies are quite common for benchrest guys but some still use Redding. Some also use whidden or full out custom dies but they are mostly using full length dies. Alot of them will even say concentricity don't mean much unless it's extremely bad and they never check it.
 
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