Neck sizing - need a little guidance please

kilohertz

kilohertz

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Hi all,

Some of you may have seen my posts re: 6.5X55 reloading for modern actions, been working on that, decided rather than chasing different powders I would investigate some other accurizing options so I floated the barrel and epoxy bedded the action, should be ready to go tomorrow. It's in the Voere Kufstein built on a Mauser 98 action.

Anyway I have 50 or so brass that were new and now once fired in my rifle, and I need some help in properly setting the die for neck sizing. It's an RCBS die and I have backed it out 1 turn to start from where it was full length resizing, seems to be still sizing the whole case, so I backed it out 2 turns, now it''s not resizing the case but it's only partially resizing the neck. I tried smoking the case to get it even closer but it seems like my chamber is a little pregnant, as the fired brass has a small section about .25" from the head, that is .481" and closer to the head where the spec says it should be .477" it is. So I am trying not to reform the case, but maybe I should be setting the die so it resizes the whole neck but doesn't bump the shoulder, I think that is the more important part of neck sizing and not worry about the case body being made a little slimmer.

Here is a picture of the neck without the die touching the main case body.

All input appreciated as always.

Cheers

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Not sure if Lee makes a collet neck sizing die for 6.5, but if they do, that's what I would use. I have neck sized using your method, but only able to size a portion of the neck.
 
You are sizing enough of the neck. You can go with that.

The tricky thing about neck sizing with a back-out FL die is lube.

True neck sizing does not need any lube. That is one of the attractions.

But with a FL die, there is a danger of the case getting stuck, which is a real nightmare.

If You are going to lube, turn the die in a half turn and lightly touch the case body.

I use a Lee collet neck sizer on many calibers. It is a sweet die to use. No lube needed.
 
Thanks boys,

With the die set the way it is now, I just lubed the neck and it went in like a breeze, but with your information, I think I will head into the gun store tomorrow and see what I can find for good used neck dies. As I am now very interested in doing things as best as possible, and most accurately, I want to find these. Our local shop has dozens of dies in a rack which I have never paid any attention to, I imagine there will be some neck dies in there. Now, the thing is I am loading for 8 calibers, come on Christmas. These things would make great stocking stuffers.
 
Ganderite is correct about no lube being needed with a neck sizing only die if it's a COLLET/MANDREL type. They work really well and it's hard to beat the LEE NECK SIZER COLLET DIES.

I use the method you're using.

One thing you need to be careful with using your method is concentric neck sidewall thickness.

The reason for that is as the neck is being swaged to size, the metal will move. All sorts of guesses why it happens but when the expander ball is drawn back through the freshly swaged neck to bring it back to proper diameter metal is also moved in an inconsistent manner. For most rifles it's not an issue but if your dies aren't true to the axis of the press???????????? Some folks try to fix this by turning down the necks on a mandrel to get uniform thickness and supposedly increase the consistency of the grip on the bullet all the way around etc etc.

I'm not a fan of neck turning for the simple reason that most factory chambers are purposely cut large and it only increases tolerances.

If you can afford it, get a set of COLLET DIES. The Lee Dies are the cheapest but work as well as any others

I found an orphan 264 Win Mag die that I use to neck size my 6.5x55 and 260 Rem cases. Of course, I had to shorten the die. It works well for me because I don't mind playing around with that sort of thing. What it doesn't do is eliminate LUBRICATION.

By the way, if you're going to use your present system for neck sizing only, lube the inside of the case neck as well as the outside.

Hornady dies use the collet system along with the FL body swaging.

Your choice.
 
kilohertz said:
Hi all,

Some of you may have seen my posts re: 6.5X55 reloading for modern actions, been working on that, decided rather than chasing different powders I would investigate some other accurizing options so I floated the barrel and epoxy bedded the action, should be ready to go tomorrow. It's in the Voere Kufstein built on a Mauser 98 action.

Anyway I have 50 or so brass that were new and now once fired in my rifle, and I need some help in properly setting the die for neck sizing. It's an RCBS die and I have backed it out 1 turn to start from where it was full length resizing, seems to be still sizing the whole case, so I backed it out 2 turns, now it''s not resizing the case but it's only partially resizing the neck. I tried smoking the case to get it even closer but it seems like my chamber is a little pregnant, as the fired brass has a small section about .25" from the head, that is .481" and closer to the head where the spec says it should be .477" it is. So I am trying not to reform the case, but maybe I should be setting the die so it resizes the whole neck but doesn't bump the shoulder, I think that is the more important part of neck sizing and not worry about the case body being made a little slimmer.

Here is a picture of the neck without the die touching the main case body.

All input appreciated as always.

Cheers

View attachment 319778
Click to expand...

From your photo I agree that you are sizing enough of the neck. Try chambering one of your sized cases. IF it goes in and out smoothly, that you haven't caused any other issues.

I've seen some people cause their case body to bulge out because they were putting downward force on the whole case while sizing just the neck, and because the case body was not supported by the die, because it was backed out too far, the case body bulged, resulting in difficult to chamber ammo.

The Redding bushing die is designed so that the case body is supported at the correct dimensions while neck sizing, without putting any force on the case body or shoulder. The bushings allow you to control how much sizing is being done, and eliminates the need for an expander ball, which significantly reduces the wear and tear on your brass during seizing.

Redding and many others have indicated that bushing dies work best with turned brass, however ever I never got into brass turning, and I've never measured any appreciable difference in run out on expander ball vs bushing only neck sizing.
 
You may find this information interesting just google “stop neck sizing your brass” As far as I am aware no competitive shooters just neck size brass anymore. Well no competitive shooters that do well anyhow. It seems like pretty much all of them full length size and bump 2-3 tho every time.
 
Killbillc68 said:
You may find this information interesting just google “stop neck sizing your brass” As far as I am aware no competitive shooters just neck size brass anymore. Well no competitive shooters that do well anyhow. It seems like pretty much all of them full length size and bump 2-3 tho every time.
Click to expand...

Too funny, in my research of collet dies and such last night I found a whole lot of info on NOT neck sizing, and full length sizing and just bumping the shoulder .001" - .002" for bolt guns. As this rifle will ultimately be used mainly for hunting, I think the full length/bump would be the best way to go, just to ensure no issues arise chambering a round in the field.

Appreciate all the input, as always, a great learning experience.

Cheers
 
Killbillc68 said:
You may find this information interesting just google “stop neck sizing your brass” As far as I am aware no competitive shooters just neck size brass anymore. Well no competitive shooters that do well anyhow. It seems like pretty much all of them full length size and bump 2-3 tho every time.
Click to expand...

I shoulder bump 2 thou with every neck size. I typically use factory ammo as my source brass, but whether using virgin brass or factory brass, the only time I F/L size is after that first firing.

When I was full length sizing with an expander ball every time, brass would usually work harden beyond being useful at 5-7 firings, with maybe 20% of brass failing with a neck split before the brass became to brittle to use. With the redding bushing die, and no expander ball, and only that first F/l sizing as explained above, I usually get 8-10 firings before the brass becomes work hardened and neck splits are now pretty rare.

I've never noticed any appreciable difference in accuracy between F/L every time vs neck and bump only. Maybe I'm not that good, but for me neck sizing is all about extending brass life, which minimizes the loss in time and materials associated with changing over brass lots and revalidating the load data.
 
kilohertz said:
Too funny, in my research of collet dies and such last night I found a whole lot of info on NOT neck sizing, and full length sizing and just bumping the shoulder .001" - .002" for bolt guns. As this rifle will ultimately be used mainly for hunting, I think the full length/bump would be the best way to go, just to ensure no issues arise chambering a round in the field.

Appreciate all the input, as always, a great learning experience.

Cheers
Click to expand...

For hunting, I would recommend test fitting all your sized brass through the gun before loading, just to make sure there are no issues with fit. With my target rifle it would typically take about 3 loads and firings before neck sizing only cause the case body/shoulder to be out of spec and to not chamber smoothly. The first time I pushed it to far and lost a whole range day cause virtually all my rounds wouldn't chamber I said EFF it and started shoulder bumping every time.
 
I have the Lee collet and the Hornady NS dies, I prefer the Lee.
One trick I learned on the Lee (probably in the instructions) is to thread out the die so when sizing the press handle is no where near the cam over point (bottom of stroke).
The forming requires moderate pressure, if it gets to cam over the pressure can bulge out a case wall and/or strip the aluminum cap nut on the die (it acts like a fuse).
 
Since you want the best possible accuracy in your rifle and willing to invest in a better way to process your brass, consider this process....

Lee collet neck die...'nuff said

Redding body die... YES, you have to control the shoulder location for proper chambering. You shouldn't neck size alone. I am not fan of backing off the FL sizer method cause you aren't controlling the headspace dimension at all... and also doing a crappy job of neck sizing.

Better seater.... I prefer Forster but have used Lee and Redding to good effect. Until your rifle and you can shoot consistently sub 1/2 MOA, the Lee seater works really well.

outside neck turning - brass flows, keep it consistent by knocking off the high spots and uneveness. Once you start turning regularly, you will understand what I mean.

Trim to length and deburr - simple stuff but helps especially in a non spec chamber

Anneal - if you have fired a case more then 3 times, time to anneal PROPERLY.

Quality powder, primer and bullet.... many small groups.

Since this is a Mauser, put in a new firing pin spring.. WOLFF. something around 24lbs should do the trick.

If you need help with components, tools/dies, etc, please pm or email Good luck.

Jerry
 
Neck sizing worked well for me over the years. I have been replacing some of the std neck dies with bushing/bump neck dies from Forster, whether that will be an improvement overall, hard to say yet. I looked at it and decided it made sense shoulders were bumped, and to not have to FLS any more than absolutely necessary. Bushing dies are nicer to use, my next step will be turning necks as well, acquired the neck turning tools over the last couple of years. Been using Sinclair/21st Century mandrels to expand the cases, Lyman M dies turned me on to that method, much better than dragging over an expander in a die. I'll get to see what difference there is with the bushing dies vs just using the neck die w/o expander and the separate expander. Never had any issues with using neck dies, but, I do use only once fired FLS for hunting, and I'll do a check on that with neck turned cases as well in the process. No a lack of experiments to try out.
 
Well thanks again for all the info, going to take me a few days to digest it all as I have a few days of work ahead of me getting ready for snow season. The Voere is ready to start shooting again having been bedded and barrel floated. I will start reloading again this weekend after I read thru all the posts here and decide which direction to go. Must pay a visit to the local gun shop as well.

Much appreciated!
 
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