In the process of getting into reloading. Bought a rcbs master supreme kit and full size die and seating die. I will soon purchase a redding competion seating die and neck sizing die that uses bushings. I will be reloading 270 and 30-06 ammunition. My question is the web sights tell me to measure loaded cases and subtract .001 from the average smallest neck size. Does this mean measure the store bought ammunition I have purchased or ammunition that has been loaded with my new press (which is still on route.)
Neck sizing question
- Thread starter tg270
- Start date
not sure what you mean exactly, but i would think you want to use whichever bushing gets you an internal neck diameter of about .275 and .306. never used bushing dies though, so hopefully somebody that knows what they are talking about will pipe up.
It means measure a loaded round and measure the outside neck. You can use store bought ammo if you will be using the same brand of brass.
If you are going to use different brass, wait until you load some with your full length die, then measure the neck.
I suggest a bushing 3 thou smaller than that OD, so the neck is nice and tight with all brass.
If you are going to be that fussy. Sort your brass by weight, too.
If you are going to use different brass, wait until you load some with your full length die, then measure the neck.
I suggest a bushing 3 thou smaller than that OD, so the neck is nice and tight with all brass.
If you are going to be that fussy. Sort your brass by weight, too.
Redding reply
I sent Redding an email asking the same question was not optimistic about a reply but in a couple of days received and answer.
They recommend getting a quantity of the same manufacturers brass load it with a standard die and then measure LOADED CASE NECKS. Then next application you can neck size knowing your brass should be of a uniform thickness.
Also their original instructions have been modified. First they said .002-.003 but now they feel that will give too much neck tension and recommend .001 less then the smalles average loaded cartridge.
Thanks for taking the time to help me with my new quest.
Terry
I sent Redding an email asking the same question was not optimistic about a reply but in a couple of days received and answer.
They recommend getting a quantity of the same manufacturers brass load it with a standard die and then measure LOADED CASE NECKS. Then next application you can neck size knowing your brass should be of a uniform thickness.
Also their original instructions have been modified. First they said .002-.003 but now they feel that will give too much neck tension and recommend .001 less then the smalles average loaded cartridge.
Thanks for taking the time to help me with my new quest.
Terry
TG - I use Redding bushings, and with all of them I resize .002 less than the loaded round which is just enough so I can feel the expander ball pull out. When I tried going .001 under, the expander ball did not touch the inside of the neck on the way out, and the neck tension was so light that I could move the bullet after it was seated. I ordered a couple for each caliber.
I find I use several means to determine the correct size for that APPLICATION. All cases, guns and prep./equip. are different. Ultimately I use a combination that gives me just enough neck tension so if I lean (against the bench) on the cartridge the bullet doesn't slip in the case - Might be one thou or more smaller.
necks sizing bushings
Thanks again everyone. I think I will start with the happy medium. .002. less then a loaded cartridge. Can I throw another question to everyone. Any preference on BRASS winchester, remington or possibly hornady??? Accessability being a big issue.
tks Terry
Thanks again everyone. I think I will start with the happy medium. .002. less then a loaded cartridge. Can I throw another question to everyone. Any preference on BRASS winchester, remington or possibly hornady??? Accessability being a big issue.
tks Terry
rnbra-shooter
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- New Brunswick
The Redding bushing dies you are buying are a *great* piece of kit. I use them to make my .308 match ammo.
Just in case you don't already know this, you only need to buy a .30-06 sizer and a .30-06 seater, you can load both .30-06 and .270 with them. This is because the .270 is simply a modified version of the .30-06 case (it's just necked down). The .30-06 seater will work with both. In your neck sizer, all you need is a bushing for your .30-06 and another bushing for your .270.
If you don't already own a full-length sizing die, you will want to get a "body die" in .30-06 and also in .270. A "body die" is the complement of a neck die, it sizes every part of the case *except* the neck. If you size a piece of fired brass (even one that has been fired in another rifle) in a body die and then in the neck die, that is equivalent to having sized it in a FL die.
Using these bushing neck sizing dies is a bit different than using ordinary dies with an expander ball. Dies with an expander ball will correctly work on pretty much any piece of brass. The way that they do this is to first make the neck too small, and then drag the expander ball (typically .306" or .307" diameter) through the neck in order to make the inside diameter of the neck a consistent size that is just enough smaller than the bullet diameter (.308") to give good snug neck tension. The tradeoff is that the brass is being "worked" more than it needs to be, so it will wear out quicker (the necks will eventually work-harden and crack, typically after 10-25 loadings). Also, the case mouth usually needs to be lubed so that the expander ball moves easily and doesn't bench the case necks, giving you crooked ammo.
In order to make good ammo with these dies, you need to have cases that have consistent neck wall thicknesses. This is because all you are doing is setting the *outside* diameter of the neck (based on the bushing size that you choose), whereas the amount of tension on the bullet is determined by the *inside* of the neck, which will vary by exactly the amount that the neck wall thickness varies.
There are a couple of ways to get consistent neck thickness. One way is to neck turn your brass. This is a lot of work, though fairly simple. You need a $35 (or is it $50 now) neck turning tool, and it'll take a minute or so to do each piece of brass. Figure on spending a couple of hours (once) setting up to turn the correct amount, it's a pretty fussy adjustment (if you trim too much off your necks, they will be expanding and contracting more than they need to each time they are fired, so they won't last quite as long).
Another way to get consistent neck thickness is to find some consistent brass. You can do this by trying a lot of different kinds and doing lots of measurements (having a $100 "tubing micrometer" is not essential but it will help). The lazy man's method, which I subscribe to, is to just buy a bunch of Lapua brass. It is more expensive than Remington/Winchester brass (though it is less of a premium now that it was several years ago), and I have found that it is consistent enough to be a "no-prep" solution. Buy the brass, and use it - no neck turning, no case weight sorting, so primer pocket or flash hole work, etc.
If you are going to make a mistake on your neck tension, it is much better to have 1 thou more than you planned rather than 1 thou less. Unless you are extremely confident of the consistency of your brass, and your measurements, I would recommend that you shoot for a bushing that is 2 thou smaller than your loaded round of ammo (or even 3 thou smaller as Ganderite suggests).
(When I bought mine, I got two bushing, one .001" under and one .002", just in case.... though paying $15-ish for a bushing you *probably* won't need does make my Scottish blood curdle a little bit)
One very nice thing about neck sizing in this manner (consistent brass, bushing dies) is that you don't need to lube the cases at all, which makes things neater and quicker.
Just in case you don't already know this, you only need to buy a .30-06 sizer and a .30-06 seater, you can load both .30-06 and .270 with them. This is because the .270 is simply a modified version of the .30-06 case (it's just necked down). The .30-06 seater will work with both. In your neck sizer, all you need is a bushing for your .30-06 and another bushing for your .270.
If you don't already own a full-length sizing die, you will want to get a "body die" in .30-06 and also in .270. A "body die" is the complement of a neck die, it sizes every part of the case *except* the neck. If you size a piece of fired brass (even one that has been fired in another rifle) in a body die and then in the neck die, that is equivalent to having sized it in a FL die.
Using these bushing neck sizing dies is a bit different than using ordinary dies with an expander ball. Dies with an expander ball will correctly work on pretty much any piece of brass. The way that they do this is to first make the neck too small, and then drag the expander ball (typically .306" or .307" diameter) through the neck in order to make the inside diameter of the neck a consistent size that is just enough smaller than the bullet diameter (.308") to give good snug neck tension. The tradeoff is that the brass is being "worked" more than it needs to be, so it will wear out quicker (the necks will eventually work-harden and crack, typically after 10-25 loadings). Also, the case mouth usually needs to be lubed so that the expander ball moves easily and doesn't bench the case necks, giving you crooked ammo.
In order to make good ammo with these dies, you need to have cases that have consistent neck wall thicknesses. This is because all you are doing is setting the *outside* diameter of the neck (based on the bushing size that you choose), whereas the amount of tension on the bullet is determined by the *inside* of the neck, which will vary by exactly the amount that the neck wall thickness varies.
There are a couple of ways to get consistent neck thickness. One way is to neck turn your brass. This is a lot of work, though fairly simple. You need a $35 (or is it $50 now) neck turning tool, and it'll take a minute or so to do each piece of brass. Figure on spending a couple of hours (once) setting up to turn the correct amount, it's a pretty fussy adjustment (if you trim too much off your necks, they will be expanding and contracting more than they need to each time they are fired, so they won't last quite as long).
Another way to get consistent neck thickness is to find some consistent brass. You can do this by trying a lot of different kinds and doing lots of measurements (having a $100 "tubing micrometer" is not essential but it will help). The lazy man's method, which I subscribe to, is to just buy a bunch of Lapua brass. It is more expensive than Remington/Winchester brass (though it is less of a premium now that it was several years ago), and I have found that it is consistent enough to be a "no-prep" solution. Buy the brass, and use it - no neck turning, no case weight sorting, so primer pocket or flash hole work, etc.
If you are going to make a mistake on your neck tension, it is much better to have 1 thou more than you planned rather than 1 thou less. Unless you are extremely confident of the consistency of your brass, and your measurements, I would recommend that you shoot for a bushing that is 2 thou smaller than your loaded round of ammo (or even 3 thou smaller as Ganderite suggests).
(When I bought mine, I got two bushing, one .001" under and one .002", just in case.... though paying $15-ish for a bushing you *probably* won't need does make my Scottish blood curdle a little bit)
One very nice thing about neck sizing in this manner (consistent brass, bushing dies) is that you don't need to lube the cases at all, which makes things neater and quicker.
